Episode 12: Excavating & Celebrating your raw materials, a retrospective coaching session.

In episode 12 we share a looking back (or retrospective) session with our client Kate. Recently reaching a significant career goal, we walk along with Kate as she recalls some of the key milestones of her journey to a new, significant promotion in her work. But we don't only accompany Kate, we help her pause, reflect, and dig a bit deeper.

In a retrospective coaching session we focus on slowing the client down in the replay of how they met their goal. We invite them to linger in key moments long enough to fully embrace the ingredients (or gifts)  they brought to bare that were instrumental to their success in reaching the goal. We invite the client to name and claim these raw materials. And create some inquiry around how these materials are useful in other pursuits in their life.

In our fast paced culture we are often moving from one accomplishment to the next without stopping to celebrate, acknowledge or even take inventory of the raw materials we possess. This type of session is powerful.

This episode is an actual , real life, unscripted coaching session. Unlike episode 11, where we also looked back, but in a coach-like conversation, not an actual session.

Our invitations to you as you listen include:

-What do you notice in your thoughts and your body sensations?
-What are some of your natural resources?
-How do you call them up when needed?
-What could you gain from looking back at a goal recently accomplished? (

Episode credits:

Kate.
Vimla.
Lisa.

#coaching #retrospective #goals #playful #selfleadership #takingcharge #leadership #careerpath #careermapping #confidence #milestones #celebration #lookingback #invisibleresources #naturalresources #essentialqualities 

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Transcript

Vimla: Hello, and welcome to Coaching Confidential, a podcast hosted by ICF certified professional coaches, Lisa DiMatteo and myself, Vimla Gulabani. In this podcast, we bring you inside a real live unscripted coaching session. And at the end of the coaching session, you hear from the client about the impact of the coaching. And you hear about the skills that the coach used. So Lisa, how shall we describe today's episode?

Lisa: So, in today's episode, we talk with Kate. Kate is a client of mine from previous days, and, we are demonstrating a particular type of coaching session with Kate today. We can refer to this type of coaching session as a look back session or a retrospective session. So, for just a little bit wider context in my previous coaching sessions with Kate, she had a goal of making a significant career shift and, she's actually succeeded in that goal. And this coaching session invites Kate to walk through the process that got her to the finish line of this goal, and really invites us slowing down and acknowledgement of what she brought to the process that made her successful. You could say that we are excavating some of the natural resources that Kate possesses within herself, that she applied to this process to make her successful. And I'm gonna share why we do this kind of coaching session. One, is obviously to celebrate the success. But beyond that celebration, there is the ability to look at the process from the other side of it, and from the other side of that in the left angle and the right angle, and really kind of get clear on what it is that we did, that we have ways that we be that brought us to this place. And I think in our purpose driven goal driven, action based culture, we reach a goal and then we just start working on the next thing. But <laugh> what if we could pause and understand what are the tools that live in our tool belt. Remember those tools celebrate those tools so that they're much easier to pull out of our belt when we could use 'em again.

Vimla: Sounds fun and fascinating and, um, full of tools. <laugh> so my guess is, you know, as we listen to this episode, we might discover our own tools in addition to hearing about Kate's tools.

Lisa: Yeah, the invitation is to, um, always with, as with all of our, our episodes is to really notice what comes up in you as you listen. And also, what can you relate to, maybe there are some tools that you hear Kate speak about that you two possess.

Vimla: Yes, absolutely. All right. Let's listen.

 Lisa: Welcome to coaching confidential, Kate.

 Kate: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

 Lisa: I'm so happy to have you here, and it's great to see you again after, um, a brief pandemic hiatus. <laugh> yeah. I'm wondering what you would like listeners to know about you.

 Kate: So right now I am a project manager, a fiance. I'm a fairy godmother. I have one goddaughter. Um, I like to call myself a fairy godmother, cuz it's just way more fun. I'm a sister, a daughter, a cousin. I'm also, um, a beach body participant working on my fitness and my health. So that's why I have my green juice here.

 Lisa: <laugh> nice

 Kate: I am drinking with you. I am also a lifetime Yogi and a lifetime student.

 Lisa: Excellent. Thank you for sharing those identities that are part of who you be.

 Kate: Yes.

 Lisa: Yeah. I hadn't heard the fairy godmother and I definitely did not hear the beach body, what did you call it the beach body?

 Kate: A beach body participant. Yeah. Beach body is like a whole fitness lifestyle program that has been around for forever. And I have a personal coach that I check in with and like groups on Instagram I check in with and it's it's health, it's fitness, it's like mental health. It's kind of everything. And I really, really love it. I've been doing it for about a month and I've already seen results and I feel like I'm part of a community, which is what I was lacking with all of my other like diets before. Mm.

 Lisa: So yeah, that sounds amazing. It is. When I look back at my yoga lifestyle pre pandemic, I went for the yoga, but I really went for the community <laugh>

 Kate: yeah.

 Lisa: <laugh> You know, so that's a really, that's a really important part of, and parts of, of being able to complete goals for me this community piece.

 Kate: Yeah. It's like the accountability aspect, but then the community is, it's like fun and it's motivating. Yeah.

 Lisa: Yeah. So I get that and I don't wanna let the piece slip by. You started with I'm a project manager. Yes. And I understand that this is a new role for you, at least since you and I last worked together and you made a transition mm-hmm <affirmative> into this new role as project manager. And I'm curious if we could talk a little bit about that transition

 Kate: Of course. Yeah.

 Lisa: Okay. Excellent. And you and I have coached together before. Yep. And so do you feel comfortable with the kind of the agreements that we've made in the past?

 Kate: I feel comfortable with the agreements we made in the past.

 Lisa: Okay. The only one that won't apply obviously is confidentiality since this is going to be a podcast.

 Kate: Yes.

 Lisa: But, um, you know, you share what you feel you wanna share. Yep. I'm just super curious about the transition that you've made because from our previous conversations, I know it was something that's been on your mind. Yep. And maybe if you could start off by sharing a little bit about what role you were doing, maybe what attracted you to it, but then eventually what made you want more yeah. Or something else?

 Kate: Yeah. So in my last role I'm, I don't wanna put any companies down, um, or any roles down, but the nature of the role had changed, which I'll get into. But essentially I started working in 2018. So I was there for about four years. And in that time it started out as was before the pandemic. It was all about customer engagement and connecting with the community. And honestly it kind of felt like going back to college when I first started because of the sense of community in the Boston area and early on, I met my now fiance. So it was just kind of, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of socializing with, uh, people your own age while also still working on towards like a, the business goal and building something really amazing that we could all be a part of and then figuring out like the, the mentality of any role that you're in with the company is that play purpose and potential and finding that, and it made it find like searching for a career in a career path that you were passionate about, so easy, so fun and networking internally. And I just found myself in like still using so many of the different skills that I learned in that very beginning of just networking and asking questions and being curious. And that was really something the companies promote in any role, again, so much fun. And then I started out, I wanted to be event coordinator. So I took the role because there were opportunities to plan events. So it was a fun way to dip my toes in. And then I realized that I was interested in the, that the analytics piece behind all of the marketing and how we drew customers in. So I started networking with the marketing department and the teams that reported those numbers. So I then, and then I even went so far to go apply to, uh, Suffolk University. I got in, um, I started a MBA program with the concentration of marketing analytics.

 Kate: And while I was there, I decided that I actually don't like numbers that much <laugh> and I couldn't look at numbers for the rest of my life like that. Um, I was more interested in like the human side of it and not so much the data side on the back end. So I quickly changed my major there. And the last class I took while I was like frantically like, oh my gosh, I need this two years that I've spent. It was a, maybe a year, a year and a half that I had spent in grad school working towards something, the money, the time, the energy, all of it. I needed it to mean something I couldn't just leave. And so the last class I took in order to wrap it up into a pretty bow, um, and I got a graduate certificate of business fundamentals.

 Kate: That last class was, um, a finance class, but we focused a lot on, um, it was like we focused on stocks, but then there was a lot of project management, math involved, randomly, and I really enjoyed it. It was something that I was like, okay, this math makes sense. And you're, you're the connecting of community and people with the data in a way. So that class really sparked my interest in project management. And so I started doing a little bit more digging, like, what is project management? What does it entail? And it was everything that I was good at. It was keep being type a organized person on top of connecting community and connecting people to other people and being like the, the go to person for any sort of project. And then I took a look at what I was doing in the cafe, what I had done the past two years as the engaged champion, as we called it, uh, the go-to person for all the events.

 Kate: And I was, I was a project manager. I was doing all those things. I just had a different title. Then it's like you think about careers and the way that society puts everything in boxes. And it's like, at the end of the day, everything's just kind of made up and people just put creative names to things like an engaged champion is an event coordinator slash project manager. And when you kind of boil things down to their core, you're like, oh, this is really not that different than other things, you know? And, um, the idea that I was already doing the job that I was really good at and that I wanted to do, and I could just tone my skills and get more certificates and hone my education into kind of bring everything together and then make more money and have more fun doing it and do it on a bigger scale.

 Kate: So from there I started networking internally, naturally mm-hmm <affirmative> and found the cafe engineering team that supports all of the operations for the cafes across the country, made a friend there, a mentor, and we just started talking and then she ended up opening up a rotation. Essentially rotations are like a six month like trial slash learning period. And then from there just keeping a lot of folks have not, I wanna say a lot, but a few folks have moved their rotations into full-time positions by just keeping that com that line of communication going and then applying for jobs within those departments. I worked on that rotation for about seven months, total. It kind of spilled over. And when I was there, I just kept asking for more opportunities to grow my skills. And, and then I ended up getting a project that, um, they probably wouldn't give to, um, just a regular ambassador, uh, which was what my actual title was on paper, um, ambassador.

 Kate: But I was doing a much bigger project working with about seven or eight different departments. And there were hiccups along the way. It was an awesome learning experience cuz this project, even if it completely failed, it wouldn't really fail. So it was a safe project. There were a lot of bumpers up, but it was such an awesome learning experience. And it was just like constantly, like what can I do? What can I do? Teach me more. I wanna learn more. Can I jump in on meetings? Can I just be a fly on the wall? And that all that kind of together gave me and plus the education and the certificates that I was getting gave me the confidence that I needed to go out into the world and say like, I can do this. And I enjoy doing this, which is what then led me to my job now.

 Lisa: So, so I wanna kind of replay what you just said. You know, you talked about the chronology of your time across four years. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and there are certain things that stood out. It sounds like you held multiple positions and, or rotations, um, during your time there. So I imagine that that kept you engaged, that that kept you exposed yeah. Um, to new things. Yep. Um, and to new people and opportunities, one of which actually got you a mentor. Yep. Which, um, sounds like it may have been a key ingredient to your ability to make this transition. Yep. You had grad school in the mix, which was, sounds like it was a really interesting and critical element to helping you sort of learn what was, and wasn't actually suited for you. <laugh>

 Kate: Yes. Very much so.

 Lisa: Yeah. And then this whole piece of it's all made up. Like I call that reframing, right.

 Kate: Reframing.

 Lisa: Yep. Like having worked in, in the same organization with you, this particular organization, like many others of its size have very specific words for things that you would never hear anywhere else.

 Kate: Yeah.

 Lisa: Right. Um, I had never heard of a business resource group before and that's basically slang for an interclub. Yeah. Right.

 Kate: Yeah. It's part of the culture.

 Lisa: It's part of the culture and it's just made up, but there's an equivalent of this thing somewhere else. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so by realizing that it was all made up and reframing what you had been doing all along, you came to the realization that actually the job that you had your eye on out there in the world you had already been doing. Yep. Did I get that right?

 Kate: Yeah, absolutely.

 Lisa: There's one other piece that I, I think is really important that you mentioned at the end and that is this sort of continual asking for more asking to be put in places where you could just observe or where you could take a chance or where you could learn or where you could meet people or where people could see you and all of this brought you to another ingredient that it sounds like was important in your transition and that's the confidence.

 Kate: Yes. Yep. I feel like before, especially before the rotation in working with my mentor, I felt a little bit fraudulent because <affirmative> because I didn't, even though I, I checked off, you know, 90% of the boxes on a lot of job applications, it was still like, but that's not my title here. And it took me a while to change my title and feel comfortable. Like I, I changed it and I put on LinkedIn that I'm an associate project manager, but I was like, that's a lie. What if anyone, like half my network is inter like internal folks that know me and they're gonna say, she's not, she's not a project manager, she's an ambassador. And so it felt really scary to not have too many projects that I felt comfortable saying like, oh, but that was a project that I completed as the project manager.

 Kate: And now looking back like, I'm right now, I'm applying for, um, my PMP, which is really exciting. And I needed 36 hours of project management time. And I went back through my whole career and I'm saying like, grow your values. Was there a project you and I worked on together actually mm-hmm <affirmative> and it, while it was an event and like customer facing it still had so many different pieces that went into it that made it a project. And that's one of my, like a month long project that I worked on that, um, hopefully fingers crossed will get my, um, application accepted by PMI.

 Lisa: Wow. That's exciting, Kate. Um, and just to make sure I'm understanding, are you saying that you felt fraudulent because the, the name for your job, wasn't the name that you used on your resume, but it sounds like the duties were the same.

 Kate: It was a mix. So yes. To what you said, because the title wasn't project manager

 Lisa: Mm-hmm

 Kate: <affirmative> but then also like the projects I had worked on weren't outlined as projects, they were just customer facing events.

 Lisa: Mm-hmm <affirmative>,

 Kate: Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, working with a team, was it wasn't identified as like collaborating with your team or me as the engaged champion. I wasn't, it wasn't like, go talk to your project manager. It was just connect with the engaged champion. So it was part of the titling that felt like, okay, you're not a project manager, but also when I looked at other project managers and their past, I had a different journey than they did. Mm-hmm

 Lisa: <affirmative>, mm-hmm

 Kate: <affirmative> so having a different journey and a different story that led me to like the title that I have today as a project manager feels like I, it just is different. It's just different. So,

 Lisa: Yeah. Okay. Okay. I get it. And you landed in a project management job

 Kate: Yep.

 Lisa: From the direction that you came at it from, did it prepare you?

 Kate: Definitely. Okay. Definitely. But it was also, I think once I made up my mind that I wanted to be a project manager and that I had the skills, it was just like, okay, you have the, you have the framework now you just need to kind of fill it all in and convince yourself and convince other people that you're a project manager.

 Lisa: <laugh>. Okay. All right. And that, that brings you to the confidence. Yeah.

 Kate: Yes. Okay. Well, cause then I had projects where I was put in a situation that was what I would be doing in my future, in like a future role. I was doing an actual project with key stakeholders and using all the terminology that project managers use.

 Lisa: So I'm curious, you have this sort of invisible quality that you developed and that you're calling confidence and that helped bridge you from one opportunity to the next. Were there other invisible qualities that brought you through the transition?

 Kate: Ooh, I like that question. Invisible qualities,

 Kate: I think like, and this might be right in line with everything else, but my career coach, Marion Walden, I'm gonna say her whole name. Cuz she is amazing. She helped me build out my resume and she would say, does this, does this look good? And, and I'd be like, yes, it looks amazing. But I don't know if like I'm like I did everything there, but it looks too good. Like it doesn't look like me and then we'd be preparing for an interview or whatnot. And like the very first question, tell me about yourself. I would just jump into like something like what I started with today and the thing that stuck out the most that I like changed my whole perception of how I looked at myself, my resume, how I presented myself was she's to go stop Kate. You don't need to tell them about like what you do on the weekends or what you do at work.

 Kate: Like, not that I was telling job interviews, what I do on the weekends, but, but like when I would start telling them about like the work that I do or the clubs that I'm a part of or organizations I'm part of, she would say, stop, you need to start with, my name is Kate. And I, I identify as a project manager, something along those lines, like I am a project manager and start with that. And that changed my whole frame of mind of like, yes I do. Like I'm trying to get a role as a project manager. I need to be a project manager. Now. I think that really helped the way that I looked at my resume, myself, everything. So that was one of them.

 Lisa: Yeah. So what I heard you say, you owned the identity. Like you stepped into the identity rather than saying, I wanna be a project manager and putting it out there. You said I am a project manager.

 Kate: Exactly. Yeah. Such a game changer.

 Lisa: How did it feel when, when you did that?

 Kate: Honestly, it felt kind of scary, which is the strangest thing. Cuz you're, it's just words. Right? They're just words <laugh>. Um, but to say, especially in like the first time I said it in an interview, like I am a project manager. I was like, I feel like part of me was like, is anyone gonna question it? <laugh> you know, like looking around like, is anyone, is anyone gonna call me out? And then nobody did. And they called me back for a second interview <laugh> and like, oh, that was easy. Okay. Like, and I have, because I owned it and I had that confidence and then my resume, my resume is what got me the interview in the first place. So it obviously speaks highly of who I am and I'm just here to back it up. So that the first time was scary. The second time it was like, yeah, I am a project manager and I need a new job <laugh> you should hire me because X, Y, and Z. So it, then it got way more comfortable each time I said it. And then I started saying it just to friends or family just to get comfortable with it. Mm. And then it became really exciting. Like, yeah, I'm a project manager. I have, I have the skills. I have the education. I I'm a project manager. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I just need someone to pay me for that title. <laugh>

 Lisa: Right. Yes. Well, here's the thing that I'm hearing, um, that I think is worth pointing out or, you know, highlighting in this, this part of your journey is that you kind of got past the fear of owning it. And even though it was uncomfortable, you went there. Yes. And even after you went there, you found other places in your life to practice it. So it would become more and more normal. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that, that's what you would say.

 Kate: Yeah. I would say like, one of the biggest things was like what you just said, finding other places in my life to make it because your career isn't just, it's not just the nine to five and then it's over, it's it's all consuming. So owning that project management title and moving into a whole new career was a whole new identity for me. And it was really exciting.

 Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. That's um, that's also pointing to, I, I just wanna reframe it yeah. Facing the fear.

 Kate: Yep.

 Lisa: Right. Of, of the new thing. Yep. And of owning the new thing and doing the hard work to get there. Like you didn't just show up at the interview and, you know, leaning back in my chair, like yeah. I'm a project manager. <laugh> yeah. You know, you made it, like you said, you, you made it part of your whole life. You found places in your whole life to, um, to step into that identity. And that is sometimes not easy work.

 Kate: No. Yeah. It was, um, it was fun, but there were definitely times where I was like, okay, this module of some sort of certificate that I was working on is so boring or like also scary setting up meetings with other project managers, trying to just get different perspectives. Um, which was definitely really beneficial, but totally scary to just send an email to say, Hey, you seem cool. Can I talk to you? <laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> and then having asking someone to take time out of their day. And I honestly, that, that was like the best thing that I like want to keep doing is just reaching out to people to say, Hey, like your resume or, you know, the work you're doing seems really cool. And, um, that's advice I would give to anybody is coffee chats, just send a quick, Hey, can I have 20 minutes of your time just to learn about them?

 Kate: Um, and people, the best advice that, um, an internal recruiter gave me the very first time I wanted to do that and I was running it by her. And so nervous to even ask the question, like, can I just reach out to this person? She was like, I can't imagine anything more flattering than getting an email from somebody just saying, can I have 20 minutes of your time to talk about you? Because you seem interesting. And the role you do seems interesting. I was like, oh, you're right. <laugh> so sometimes like I find myself having to remind myself as well that putting yourself in someone else's position of the person that you want to talk to, or you want to be, it's like, why not lift someone up that you can, you know, why not talk to somebody or share knowledge or advice and it is flattering.

 Lisa: Yeah. I think that's a really great point to bring up and, and really nice advice to offer anybody who's listening, who might be in the position that you are in at that point in time. Kate, because I think that networking is the most challenging part of a job search for anybody at any phase in their career.

 Kate: Yeah. Yeah. And just being like, everyone has been there before, you know, everyone has been at the very beginning of their career or been looking for a new job and has, and it's scary no matter who you are. Yeah. Like it's intimidating. And so just remembering that, like, you're not the first person to do this and like asking those questions and putting yourself out there is, is gonna just bring you further.

 Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Well, great. So you did all of these things and, and I just wanna highlight you added another resource in there that is worth mentioning and that's a career coach.

 Kate: Yes. Yes.

 Lisa: And it sounds like she was quite instrumental in like really getting you into action and owning who you wanted to be. Yeah. Or who actually you already were.

 Kate: Yeah. Yeah.

 Lisa: So we've got this list of things building that you surrounded yourself with and some qualities, a list of qualities, um, running here that you embodied and created for yourself to get out of the inertia mm-hmm <affirmative> of the space that you were in and into the space that you wanted to get in. Yep. Um, could you just tell us a little bit about what it was like when you started and how you kind of got over the hump of starting a new position?

 Kate: Yeah. Um, so I've been in my new role since like three going on four months. Um, and my new role, it was definitely scary. Um, I am the enterprise project manager for a small bank in the north shore. They have about 15 locations. Um, and the only project manager, the enterprise project manager, I work a lot with leadership, so that like imposter syndrome or the fear of different things has definitely come out. And I've definitely like just sending an email I've re I've like broken my brain, like proofreading emails to make sure the tone is correct, and that I'm coming off professional. But at the end of the day, everyone's really relaxed and, uh, has just wants to get the work done. And so when it comes to perfecting your email, they don't care about that. They just wanna make sure that I'm doing my job, um, doing my job well and connecting the right people.

 Kate: So it's been, it's definitely been a, it's a very different vibe. And I will say one thing that I do miss. Um, I mentioned that I am the only project manager and the enterprise project manager. I do miss that sense of community. I don't have a team, so that's a little bit of a bummer, but I, the upside is that I work with a little bit of everybody. So I think, and I'm still fairly new. So still getting to know everybody and kind of come out of their shells. And I think my next step to fill that void that I feel, especially with this new hybrid model, we have will be somewhat cheesy team introductions at the beginning of meetings. So, so I can get to know people better <laugh> and kind of break this ice, cuz at times it feels a little bit stiff

 Lisa: Mm-hmm <affirmative>

 Kate: But that's something that I can bring to the team and create now that I've kind of gotten the foundation of my role in the company.

 Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Is it okay if I ask you a couple of sort of rapid fire questions?

 Kate: Yeah. Bring it on.

 Lisa: Okay. What does that mean? That means I'm gonna just ask you a question, like first thing that comes to mind. Okay. You know, bullet a bulleted answer. If you will, this is a tough one, but I'm gonna ask it in, in no pressure. If you only had one word to describe how you got where you're at. Mm-hmm <affirmative> what would it be?

 Kate: I would say, um, like connections and if I can explain just a tiny bit, like sure. It wasn't just the connections that, I mean, but also like I got this job that I have now because somebody, a recruiter, uh, saw my resume on LinkedIn and reached out to me via email and was just like, Hey, would you be interested in this? And that's how this came to be. So just like connections and being open to connections. Yeah.

 Lisa: Beautiful. Beautiful. And what, you know, it sounds like you learned a lot, but what's sort of the overarching lesson that you've learned from this transition process for yourself.

 Kate: Hmm. I've learned so much. I think the one that will carry me on throughout the rest of my life is really trusting myself and like listening to what it is that I need and not just what I want, but what I need.

 Lisa: Hmm. Yeah. Beautiful. What advice do you have for others who are in a space where they know they need to make a move, but they're either too comfortable, too scared or, you know, trapped in some limiting belief that is not allowing them to take a step forward. What advice would you have for them?

 Kate: I would say like, just try new things. Like you don't have to commit to anything right off the bat, just try new things and dabble in things dabble in tr try a certificate program. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Try a coffee chat, um, get to know people, just try, try different things cuz you never know what will pan out into like a long term career like, and your next career step or your next conversation could turn into a mentor, just try new things.

 Lisa: It almost sounds like a cross between experiment and play.

 Kate: Yeah. Real like really play like just have fun with it. It's I am definitely a person that takes myself way too seriously. A lot of the time <laugh> I have, I literally have a comp bond board behind us for my wedding planning. It's ridiculous.

 Lisa: <laugh> um, <laugh>,

 Kate: It's really pretty though. Um, but I try to have fun and that when you're, when I'm just having fun and just enjoying things is when the best things happen and the best things pan out.

 Lisa: Yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Okay. My last question, what's next for you Kate?

 Kate: Oh, so I have a call tomorrow evening around this time with my career coach Marion. Um, and I know she's gonna be like Kate, you haven't changed a bit when I tell her that there's a role that I wanna apply for <laugh> <laugh> and then I just want her to proofread my resume, but that's part of it just like, see what happens and um, like see where life takes you. And um, the "Lean In" book written by Sheryl Sandberg, she calls out the whole career ladder and just climbing a career ladder. It's not a ladder, it's a playground. And there's tons of twisty slides on there. And if I were to end up making a transition to a new job after four months of starting this one, I know that my parents and other people would be like, what are you doing? You just got this job, but it's a, it's a jungle gym and it's fun. And if there's opportunities then sees them and um, yeah, so I don't know what's next, but definitely a little bit of trying to build that community in my current role. And then just seeing what else is out there.

 Lisa: Beautiful. Yeah. More, it sounds like more play

 Kate: Lots of play. I try to have fun with it. Yeah. <laugh>

 Lisa: Yeah. Well, you know, I think that's a really great perspective to hold because then you know, how much of it is actually really

 Kate: Work cuz everything's just made up. So you might as well have

 Lisa: <laugh> that's right. <laugh> that's right. Beautiful. And I, I would think I'd like to take a quick second just to acknowledge you for sort of your focus on what it is that you wanted, your determination mm-hmm <affirmative> right. For all of the angles at which you went about it, some of the things that you mentioned were having a career coach, having a mentor, realizing that everything is just made up <laugh> and so, you know, just reframing the, what you're doing. Um, it has other names, other places. Yeah. Right. And you're so much more than that name. That is where you're at, you know, getting more education, networking, networking, networking, you know, huge having these coffee chats, you mentioned taking other rotations and putting yourself in new spaces with new people. Yeah. All of that I have to imagine was a lot of work. Uh, a lot of it took a lot of courage. Yeah. Um, but it sounds like the payoffs for you included skill and confidence among others.

 Kate: Absolutely nailed it. Yeah.

 Lisa: You're the one who did it. So <laugh> amen to you sister. I, I really, really, really I'm I'm in admiration of that. Thank you so much, Kate. I just want to reflect back on, on the conversation if we can, from the side of it that we're now on. Yep. And ask you what this was like for you.

 Kate: This was really good. I knew it was gonna be good because I always enjoy coaching sessions with you. Um, but I had a few different thoughts in my head earlier today about what it might look like. And then this was, it was therapeutic. It was therapeutic and really helped me, uh, just talking, talking out loud and hearing yourself say your thoughts is, uh, so beneficial sometimes. But I feel as though I have, um, a fresher, like slightly rejuvenated perspective on my current role and the opportunities that I just wasn't thinking about, uh, beforehand and I feel good. I feel really good.

 Lisa: Yeah. Okay. Great. Is there anything that surprised you that you heard to come outta your mouth?

 Kate: Um, I think hearing myself talk about some of my advice and especially like the play aspect, it's funny how sometimes you perceive yourself differently than how others perceive you. So hearing you reflect my own words back to me is kind of like, oh I am, I am like that. And I, I am. I'm good. I'm good. <laugh> um, I think that it, it, this conversation and this coaching gave me a little bit of a confidence boost to say, you know, I, I do have good ideas. My brain is smart. I can go to work and implement these different things and just figuring out the right way to do it. Yeah. So thank you for the confidence boost.

 Lisa: <laugh> <laugh> well, thank yourself. It came from you. This is just the container. Yeah. Um, is there anything else, Kate, is there anything else that you wanna reflect on or add, or that feels here in the moment,

 Kate: I guess for your listeners, like again, just have fun with your career and play on that jungle gym and just continue to build connections and step outta your comfort zone. That would be my advice as for the career people. <laugh>

 Lisa: Very generous, very generous advice. Kate, thank you so, so much. And oftentimes when people are trying to reach a goal, it's really easy to talk about two parts of it. One is how hard it was and how it's never gonna happen and, and all of that, but mostly what you hear from people is I'm here. I got here, I'm here and everybody else is like, yeah, but how, yeah. But how, like you don't see, you don't get to see the sort of back end of things. Yeah. I'm sure that there is a project management term for this, or like some project management process for this because effectively it was a project. Yeah. You leaving to get this next opportunity. So I guess I'm gonna ask you it, what is, what, when you look back on a project to see like how it went to value, is that a thing that you do

 Kate: It is it it's, it's just a retrospective <laugh> as simple as that,

 Lisa: A retrospective, you can do a retrospective. That's really what this conversation in a way was aiming for. So as you step away from it, I hope you continue to reflect and receive from it. Well, whatever's there that you want, that you wanna have. So thank you,

 Vimla: Lisa. That was a very thought provoking session. There was so much in there.

 Lisa: Yeah, there certainly was. And um, what I love is that, you know, as we were getting closer to the end of the session and there were questions designed to really ring out, you know, all different variations of, of what was there. Kate found a new place, she found new information, she got new resources out of the conversation. You know, we talk a lot about resources and, and, you know, time, energy, and money, which obviously went into her process, but there are other invisible resources, these tools really, um, that we were speaking about earlier that Kate brought to bear and I'm wondering, uh, what you heard there, Emma.

 Vimla: Yeah. I heard Kate, uh, acknowledge and recognize that she's fun. She has, she knows how to have fun. And even during this process of a career change, she had fun with it. She played full loud and uh, she was very open, open to connections. So the tools, the invisible tools that I heard were fun play and being open to human connections.

 Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. And, and there's one other that she spoke about, but I think that those three that you named really led her to this next one, which was confidence.

 Vimla: Yes, yes, absolutely.

 Lisa: And underneath all of that, you know, there are these other, other qualities, I don't know that they were necessarily named in the episode, but there were inner resources that Kate brought beyond those things and those included tenacity because she, she stayed at this for, I mean, this was a, a multi-year process, right? Yes. Perseverance courage, especially when it came to, you know, when she was talking about networking, um, and reaching out to people and claiming, and I a particular identity. Right. I think that takes courage.

 Vimla: Yes, absolutely.

 Lisa: What, what else did you hear there? Anything

 Vimla: I wanna underscore a lot of courage when she talked about the coffee chats, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, claiming her identity needed courage and reaching out to somebody that you may not have met before and just asking for a coffee chat that needs a lot of courage as well.

 Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think when we're talking about reaching a goal, I know for myself sometimes I, I will think that I need things that I don't possess or that I don't think I have. And so I really appreciate this session as a reminder, uh, that we all have on board, various qualities, some that come naturally to us and that we're always, you know, throwing in the mix. They're always part of how we be in the world. And some that maybe we're not so skilled at, or as practiced at, maybe we, we should say and that we forget are there.

 Vimla: Yes.

 Lisa: So I really, I love this session for remembering that we all have these things available to us and it makes me feel a little bit like anything is possible because of that.

 Vimla: Yes, absolutely. Anything is possible. And we all have these invisible resources. So a note to our audience, uh, you all probably have a lot of invisible resources that you use all the time, but you're just not aware of them. If you would like to identify them, name them, label them with the help of a coach, reach out to us.

 Lisa: Yeah. And in the meantime, we're getting ready for, what's going to be episode 13. Is that right? Emma?

 Vimla: Yes. Episode 13. It's going to be about coaches.

 Lisa: What a surprise. <laugh>

 Vimla: Yes. That's all we talk about either coaches or coaching.

 Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. And, and to make it a little bit more specific lately, we've been having a certain, um, level of interest around like the life of a coach. Right? What is it like to actually be a coach in reality? What are some of the things that are considerations in life and what, you know, if you weren't always a coach in life and neither one of us were right. We came from other careers. What is it like when you become a coach? What is it like in your relationships, your personal relationships. And we even have, um, a little case study on what it's like when two coaches who are married to one another become coaches at roughly the same time. So yeah, that's, what's coming up in the next couple episodes.