Episode 10: Taking it personally

This episode has so many dimensions to it.  On the surface the topic is about how the client can improve her relationship with her adult daughter. Underneath the layers we find so much more, including the details of what's really going on.  And a potential solution.

Listen in to hear how we got there!

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Transcript

Vimla: Hello and welcome to Coaching Confidential, a podcast hosted by ICF certified, professional coaches, Lisa Dimatteo and myself, Vimla Gulabani. In this podcast we bring you inside a real live, unscripted coaching session and at the end of the coaching session, you hear from the client, about the impact of the coaching and you hear about the skills that the coach used. 

Vimla: So Lisa, What's the theme of today’s episode? 

Lisa: So today we are talking about our access to our own unique wisdom, those things that we already know that exist within us, and that sometimes we have a little bit of trouble accessing. And our client Charlene explores how she can keep a door open to that wisdom, even in the most triggered moment. The specific context, and some of you may relate to this, circles around her relationship with her daughter. 

Vimla: Hmm.. fascinating, let’s listen. 

Lisa: Welcome to the podcast Charlene. 

Charlene: Thank you Lisa.

Lisa: You and I have coached together many times before. In fact, full disclosure Charlene and I are former colleagues and now friends and collaborative partners. And In this episode, I'm going to coach Charlene on a topic that she has predetermined. It's sort of maybe a little bit of a continuation of a previous session we've had before Charlene.

Charlene: Yes. 

Lisa: Okay, Great. So because we've coached, before we have a designed alliance already in place, but maybe because this is the first time we're coaching and we're recording it. I'll just check in with you to remind you that. Well, the session isn't really going to be confidential because going to be posted on the coaching confidential website. But because of that, I just want to check in with you and ask. If there's anything you need in this space or for our conversation, to make it more of how you wanted for yourself today.

Charlene: Grace. Ability to have grace for myself and pause so that I can gather my thoughts and that's what I would need. Thank you for asking. 

Lisa: Yeah yeah I'm so glad that I did because you got to name that and just for clarity's sake as the coach is there something that you need for me to support you having that grace for yourself?

Charlene: It's very coach-like anyways to to be able to process. Sometimes I have difficulties explaining so, maybe I'll have to re-explain myself. So to me that would be, that would be Grace. 

Lisa: Okay. Beautiful. Yeah. So you'd like a space to be able to do that.

Charlene: Yes. 

Lisa: Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. And may I refer to sometimes how we be, in our previous coaching sessions. 

Charlene: Yes 

Lisa: Okay, I know that sometimes you and I will sound things out together. So sometimes when you're processing and trying to put the thoughts together, I have read back to you what's coming across on this end and kind of read that back to you. Is that something that would help in this process? Or would you like us to leave that part out? 

Charlene: No, I think that's helpful. 

Lisa: Okay, So I’ll combine that with the space. And if we need to make any adjustments to that in our conversation, you let me know. 

Charlene: Yes 

Lisa: okay

Charlene: Thank you

Lisa: All right. Beautiful. And, what are we talking about today Charlene.. 

Charlene: Well, our continuing conversation about my relationship with my daughter, our relationship. I could describe it as someone that we're so close, yet far.

Lisa: Yeah. Okay. So, I'm curious as we enter this conversation about the relationship that you share with your daughter, this relationship, that's so close, but so far or so far and so close. How are you feeling right now? What's present with you right now?

Charlene: I've always known that our closeness sometimes separates us, which is weird, it's very ironic. I've known that for a while but it seems like I get more and more understanding of it and more accepting of it as opposed to resisting that. But, how do I dance, instead of doing that same dance with her over and over and over again, and the dance is not fun. I love dancing but our dance is just not fun at all, it's not fun for either of us. So I'm just trying to kind of find my way, what's a new dance? What can that look like? 

Lisa: Yeah. Okay beautiful. I hear you holding a question, I hear you being curious about what's possible in your relationship, the way that you be with each other. 

Charlene: Yes. 

Lisa: Is that what the dance is metaphor for? 

Charlene: Absolutely. Yes. 

Lisa: Okay. All right let me just come back one more time. As we get ready to have that conversation, maybe stepping into the curiosity around the way you be together, what emotions are present with you right now.

Charlene: I guess, scared. Anxious. Some nervousness for some reason. I just don't want to do that same dance. I don't want to but then at the same time, I’ve begun to accept it actually. Instead of resisting it I've just begun to like, you know, I accept it. Even a dance really bites, I feel like, okay, well, if that's how it has to be, then that's how it has to be. And I need to not fight it. 

Lisa: Yeah. Does that feeling right there map to an emotion?

Charlene: Well, it's a sense of newness but also scared. I'm scared that, I'm not sure what I'm scared of. I guess because I've always done the same thing, we've always done the same thing the same dance and it just results into the same thing and sometimes it changes a little bit but we come back to the same thing. We argue and fight and we have two completely differing information, I feel like I need to mother her and I feel like she needs to school me about her. Which is a really weird conversation to have. It’s like we're fighting to be seen I guess, she's fighting for her to be seen and fighting for me to be heard.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. That seems like it's very tender territory. May I bring you back for just one quick second. It sounds like you're feeling scared anxious right now, by the end of our call, by the end of this session, how would you like to feel?

Charlene: I usually think, why I'm scared? This is why I'm scared, because with time, I know, there's no guarantee. There's not a guarantee at the end, like, you know, even though I'll try my best, and a different way, or sacrifice now, or suffer now, I have no idea if at the end, it's gonna work out. And that not knowing that scares me. So, that's the part because I know that there's not a guarantee, but of course not trying, will guarantee failure. Sometimes I try to target, like a healthier relationship, a healthier conversation, a healthier understanding.

Lisa: What's healthy? 

Charlene: That not either of us are offended, that we're not hurt, she's not hurt. I'm not hurt. Not needing to defend, you know, me not being defensive and her not being defensive. Yeah so, what am I wanting to get out of the session, well, I guess not to have that fear and just have faith that you know but I'm doing now can contribute to a healthy relationship in the future even if it's not guaranteed.

Lisa: okay. Anything else?

Charlene: I guess I'm ideas of how to be. How to be when we are having tough conversations, or it's really difficult for me to hear and listen. You know like, how do I be, that I'm okay with. Because when she says something to me, that makes me cringe, I think that there's judgment there, that oh my gosh her life is not going well. I am taking it personally, like I must be a bad mother, because look at her life, it's such a shamble. So, it causes me, I guess to be on a fix mode, I have to fix this. So instead of that, I want to not take offense, not having to fix, you know. I do listen, there's been times that I listen. But I really absorb it, I hurt for her, I take offense, I, you know, there's a lot of judgment there against me against her. So if I could show up differently other than how I have been.

Lisa: Okay. Sounds like I heard two things. I heard that you would like to leave the call feeling like you're doing something to change the situation, to shift the relationship. The second thing I heard is that you'd like to leave with some ideas about what those things are. So one is that I'm doing some things, and the other is what maybe the things are, or how am I being?

Charlene: Yeah. How am I being other than how I have been?

Lisa: Ahmm.. okay, so you're aiming toward the way of being, if I wear short-handing that. 

Charlene: yeah. 

Lisa: Okay. This is a new way of being in relationship with your daughter.

Charlene: Right. And truly, truly encompass that. I feel like, if she's not doing well I must not be a good mom. 

Lisa: Is that true? 

Charlene: I don't know, that's how it makes me feel even when I'm saying it. Like if she's not doing well in life, I feel like I may have not taught her enough. I may have not given her enough. So yeah, it's very hard to not take it personally.

Lisa: Yeah, I hear that, I want to acknowledge you for recognizing that, that's what you're doing. 

Charlene: I think she also knows that those are my buttons because she specifically says that too sometimes, you know, she’ll be like you weren't a good mom and I'd say well I don't know if you were the best daughter either you know. But I think I'm just being bity. So it's sort of a trigger for me that she has found and it's also a trigger within me that I know I have. 

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. So, when you hear this belief that you have bouncing around your head, echoed back to you from your daughter, what's that like?

Charlene: I become very defensive, I mean it doesn't feel good when she says the words and then she also picks that up and throws that against me like being thrown crap in my face. So you know I think it doubles up my anger and insecurity at the same time I believe. And guilt, and I just say, okay well you know she can feel the way she can feel and describe the way it was. You know, it doesn't have to be a story that I approve of. And so it's hurtful sometimes, I also have stories that are hurtful to her I'm sure you know. 

Lisa: Charlene wants really important here?

Charlene: For the relationship to mature. 

Lisa: What's mature?

Charlene: I guess maturity means, with wisdom. Less judgy, less angst, more compassion and understanding with each other. 

Lisa: So mature is compassion, understanding, and wisdom in the relationship.

Charlene: Hmm..

Lisa: Okay. Do I work with those for a few minutes? 

Charlene: Sure. 

Lisa: Because those seem like three ingredients, you've identified, that could be useful here.

Charlene: Yes.

Lisa: Okay, all right. Compassion, understanding and wisdom, where you want to start?

Charlene: I guess wisdom is really important to me. 

Lisa: Yeah, so, where does wisdom live in you? 

Charlene: I guess it, sort of, it lives in my heart and my head. It lives in the body everywhere. When your mind and heart and muscle memory, all that are all in alignment, I think that’s wisdom. It's when there's internal conflict somewhere, weather it's emotions or logically or, your stomach, So then, I think I believe, when I am in that, I think the wisdom is harder for me to reach.

Lisa: Hmm. Okay. So How do you access it?

Charlene: Yeah, I'd like to be able to access it on demand. But this moment, it’s very specific, when I feel relaxed, when I don't feel attacked, when I'm feeling really good. Often times I'm not complaining about when we have good conversations, I'm complaining about when we are in not good conversations, when we're extremely agitated.

Lisa: Yeah, I hear you honing into the moment, the difficult moment of accessing your wisdom. When you are activated.

Charlene: Yes 

Lisa: You said that it's hard to access when you are anxious or angry you're upset.

Charlene: Yeah. 

Lisa: So you picked the more difficult case but in a moment when you're not in one of those places, you called out specifically your head in your heart as entry points, to where your wisdom lives among others. When you're not in one of those places, how do you access that wisdom? 

Charlene: I think the curiosity is a window to the wisdom. I think if I open that door and just be curious in listening like active listening.

Lisa: So being curious and listening are ways that you access your wisdom when it's a garden variety moment. 

Charlene: Yeah. 

Lisa: Okay. All right. And, is there any physicality involved with that? Like, when I ask you some questions in this session, I've noticed that your eyes move up and down and side to side, it's like you're looking. But I wonder if there's a thing you do physically, that you're aware of, that is part of accessing that wisdom. 

Charlene: Yeah. 

Lisa: And you're doing it again. Your eyes go up and side to side, I wonder if that's the thing. 

Charlene: Yeah I think that's the thing probably. I'm not really noticing because when I think, I guess, you know, you kind of look into the brain to kind of access the brain. Yeah, I'll have to take notice because I really don't know. I really don't know, you know. I know I feel really good in my body when I feel like I am the wisdom and leaning in when I'm talking.

Lisa: So we're drawing a picture of the landscape of you, accessing your wisdom when you're not triggered. We know that a way you access it is to be curious, to listen. You have a physical manifestation that sometimes has you kind of using your eyes to go up into your head and move around your head, I guess is what I'm seeing. to get information. Also that you lean in, like you described. So we have this picture of what it's like you accessing your wisdom untriggered. How might that inform the moments when you are triggered?

Charlene: Well, I'm just not beginning to articulate because of your observation. So I need to be aware because usually the anxiousness I feel in my heart and I get really just kind of tight inside when I'm starting to get triggered. So, I guess those are two different datas informing me of where I am. Yes, I could now make a distinction of how I'm being. 

Lisa: hmm Yep. So, when you're triggered, when you're there, you feel tight inside. It's a different environment in you than when you're accessing your wisdom in a non triggered moment.

Charlene: right. 

Lisa: Yeah okay. How easy or difficult is it to get to that place when you're triggered.

Charlene: Oh, not at all easy.. 

Lisa: Okay yeah. 

Charlene: it's not that instantaneously. It's very hard for me and probably have to like kind of have some time to kind of recompose myself, but I yeah. Okay, continuous composure would probably and probably not that not composed. 

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, I get that. As a human that gets triggered, I understand that. But what I heard you say is kind of interesting. You kind of provided one solution, it's not as instantaneous, but it is a way to get back to your wisdom, regain your composure. 

Charlene: Right. 

Lisa: Yeah.

Charlene: So, acknowledge where I am and then give myself grace and time.

Lisa: yeah. And then, at some point, are you able to go back into your normal process for accessing your wisdom? 

Charlene: Yeah, I think so. 

Lisa: Okay. 

Charlene: I to really invite myself and be very aggressive in my invitation to, to give myself grace, because that's the time that I'm, I'm very one of those people like, I need to fix it now. There's something that I need to do, I gotta do it now. It's got to be now. Now or never, that mentality has gotten me a lot of successes in life, but a lot of failures too in relationships. 

Lisa: Well I can see how the one solution that we've just that you've mined out so far is in conflict with that belief.

Charlene: Yeah, 

Lisa: Because the belief of, I've got to fix it now, doesn't have space for the time that you need to recompose yourself. 

Charlene: It's so interesting because I surround myself with similar personalities, most more for the most part. I mean, you're not saying they're all the same, but I I feel like most of the relationships I have nurtured are the kind of relationships that, they need the time. That, I can't really fix now. They're sort of like not on my train. And so I've been tested many times, and I just keep resisting, spectacularly failing. While I say that, I have very many successful relationships that I have nurtured. And this thing with me and my daughter it's just something that I for some reason just cannot. I'm having a hard time fixing. 

Lisa: I hear that. I really hear that and we've identified three things that represent ways you want to be. 

Charlene: Yeah

Lisa: Wisdom, compassion and 

Charlene: understanding 

Lisa: Okay, wisdom, compassion and understanding. You started with wisdom as the first thing to explore, and you've identified the ways in which you access your wisdom, when you are not activated or triggered. You're familiar with the way that you do that. You also identified that that same place is really hard to get to instantaneously when you are triggered. 

Charlene: Correct

Lisa: And oftentimes your belief that that the moment needs to be resolved that moment or the urgency that exists in the space between you and other gets in the way of giving yourself that as a as a solution as a path. So we have one way to use wisdom but it, it isn’t the one you can use all the time, because if it's urgent, if you believe it has to happen now, or somebody else believes it has to happen now, that isn't one that's gonna work. So if you look at that list of three, what's another in door you might choose.

Charlene: compassion.

Lisa: Okay. Tell me about that. 

Charlene: Compassion for myself and for the other person, you know where they are or where I am? You know. 

Lisa: If I were watching the two of you in one of these moments that you describe that's really difficult. And you opened up your handbag to reach for some compassion, like as if it were that simple, what would I see you doing, how would I know that you've called upon the tool of compassion in a moment?

Charlene: yeah, by not reacting but not taking the defensive mode. 

Lisa: How do you do that?

Charlene: I don't know, I guess one of, as I said, I don't know, something came in my mind saying, you know, this is not about you. 

Lisa: What’s not about you? 

Charlene: It's not about, you know being tested. Are you being a good mother? Were you a good mom? You know. This is about her, where she is, what she's saying, her version and her perspective. And, it doesn't have to be in alignment with mine, because we're different people. And I think remembering that I'll have more, I feel like I can reach in that bag of compassion and just being still, I'm seeing her listening to her. I mean, it all sounds good as I'm saying it now, but when I'm in that trigger thing, it's so different when I'm in that, in that situation. 

Lisa: Yeah, 

Charlene: It's so complex, our relationship is so complex. 

Lisa: Well Charlene, let me, let me affirm that, but also like there is science to this. And I I'm not an expert at this, but I do know that when you're triggered emotionally, there are chemicals that get released in your body.

Charlene: Yes.

Lisa: When we are under stress, we release cortisol and other elements. Keep in mind that I'm not a scientist I'm pulling from anecdotes. But, I know this to be true, and so when you have these, these chemicals moving through your body, it's no joke. It can literally feel more challenging than it felt the moment before. Because perhaps your body is in a fight space, it could be in a flight space, like get me out of here or you could freeze or you could please. There are these reactions that we have to be stressful moments that are very real. But I do want to come back to a thing, I heard you say that I, I just want to check my understanding of. When I asked about the compassion piece, well you know, what would look like to pull it out of your handbag, you said something about not making it about you? And I asked you, making what about you? And you said something that sounded like you were saying. Well, whatever conflict it is, it's not about whether I'm a good mother or not. It's about something else. Did I Hear that right? 

Charlene: Yes. 

Lisa: ok.

Charlene: Yeah. Yeah it's hard balancing, right, the response because of the anxiousness that you mentioned all the different things are going on, like, either, you know, flight, fight. Usually, we use those two often, we fight and both, both and. Yeah, it's very hard because, because sometimes, you know, like if I decide that I want to, flight, and run away that, you know, my daughter feels abandoned. And then when you, when I stay I feel like all I got is when I'm staying it's like I have to say fighting so…

Lisa: well, if you are in one of those states, how do you want to be? We started this whole conversation with you saying you'd like to know ways you can be. So if you recognize that you're in fight, flight, freeze or please, how do you want to be first with yourself? 

Charlene: You know, since I must operate on wisdom, compassion and understanding, I'm gonna need a minute, you know. If I could just kind of have a minute to myself, that would be good. It's not like, I hope that I have request something for myself, not feel that person because I think for her too, a lot like me. Let's fix this now. 

Lisa: Yeah, 

Charlene: I think that's the, that might, even though it is similar, it creates a lot of conflict for both of us. Because she's trying to fix it now, I'm trying to fix it now and then when I, so I'm gonna try to say like let's take a break, let's take half an hour and see what happens. I have never done that before. So it would be interesting for me to try that out, say like, can we can we take a time out, you know. Let's call back, we call back and see how that goes. I mean, I'm just, you know, that would be a good try. 

Lisa: Yeah. I am noticing, as you say that that you look much more relaxed. I know listeners cannot see you, but you’ve kind of brightened up a little bit and your eyes are not going back into your head. It’s like you went in there and got the wisdom came back out. 

Charlene: Yeah, I am going to try that, it seems, seems simple enough. I don't think I've tried that before, so it'll be interesting for me to see what happens when we're, you know, we're both triggered. I hope that I say it with, with, like neutral, you know with neutrality and compassion for both of us. 

Lisa: Yeah. Okay. How can you support yourself in making that happen, or making that likely. 

Charlene:  Yeah, I am going to have to write that down or I don't know. I will have to think about that because, when you're, when I'm triggered, that's the point accessing that wisdom right, I feel like this is another wisdom. So, I guess I could write it down on a sticky note, on a bunch of sticky notes, you know, like grace, you know, give yourself grace. 

Lisa: Yeah. 

Charlene: you know, give yourself grace. So, grace to me is like a timeout for me. 

Lisa: Yeah. 

Charlene: I need a timeout. 

Lisa: who your allies here like, in doing this thing, right, in  trying this new thing that you're gonna try in a moment when, it is so tempting to go another direction and in fact, feel your body is like positioning you to go another direction, right? It's really like amping you up to fight flight, freeze or please. Who allies that can support you in having that 30 minute time out.

Charlene: well, my husband is very supportive in my relationship with my daughter. And my ally will be like a, the reminders. Perhaps you know, come to my office and see what I have put up here, so that, in case I don’t have access in my mind because I'm triggered, so I could just see the reminders. That way, I don't have to think about that, I don't have to remember, so it's just easily accessible for me. 

Lisa: Are you saying that you would write a thing that you might say out loud in an argument or in a triggered moment.

Charlene: Yeah

Lisa: And you would have it in your office, so that it's like practiced and it just comes out. Is that what you're saying? 

Charlene: Yup. I'm gonna right down, like the grace, giving yourself grace. 

Lisa: hmm.. 

Charlene: So yes, I'm gonna write that down, what it means, and like, take a break, thirty minute break. It sounds very simple, but I'm actually excited, for the next time that we have this a difficult conversation and see if I can actually you know go to my office and use it, and so I am pretty excited about that and see what happens.

Lisa: Great. It sounds like you've come up with three ways that you want to be and at least two things that you can do to practice how you want to be.

Charlene: Yeah, Yes. 

Lisa: And you've got a structure for supporting yourself for this happening. And we're talking about a relationship here, right. You're focused on how and who you want to be in this relationship. In the relationship with other, is there anything else that you want to say or do to support trying this out?

Charlene: My husband is a  really good accountability partner, so I am going to let him know what's happening. So any time, because he knows, he reads, he’s already seeing how I am being on the phone. I even try to hide sometimes because he sees. So anyways, this is one way that I can have a kind of like, accountability partnership with him. He knows how I'm being, he knows the changes that's happening, even if I'm not that aware, you know. I think that’s the only thing really I can think of, I don't really, I can't think of anything else.

Lisa: okay.So in full transparency, I am  having a self-management moment as a coach. So, I'm having a moment where I am trying to manage staying in the coach space. And I wonder if I may have permission to tip my coaching hat, a little bit into a space that might not be pure coaching in the moment. 

Charlene: Sure. 

Lisa: Okay. All right. First of all, I want to acknowledge you before I do that. I love how creatively you are thinking about this, like I want to come up with an idea I haven't done before. Like, all things I've been doing are just kind of landing us in the same spot, so I'm gonna take responsibility for how I be, in this relationship and I would like to be clear on how I want to be and I would like to think about what that looks like in a moment. And you've done that, you've done a little bit of that. We've kind of scratched the surface but you came up with an idea. And I just want to acknowledge you for that, you're really creative and I'm gonna say courageous because, you know, this is tender, this is tender stuff here. Now, in the coach hat tipping arena, in addition to having your husband support you as an accountability partner. Is there a way you can enroll your daughter as an ally here? 

Charlene: Mmm… Umm… Yeah. That would be good. I think she would be. I mean, we do agree that we don't want to fight. You know, she has said that many times to me, like, I just don’t wanna fight with you. Yeah, we could definitely kind of creatively come up with something. I’ll tell her that I'm coming up with that, what does she need in order for her to like, like if I need to go that she manages herself, that she's not feeling like I'm abandoning her. 

Lisa: Yeah. Beautiful. 

Charlene: Just kind of taking off from the conversation. So yeah.

Lisa: Awesome. What I love about that is, I did hear you say that earlier, that there is this sense that, everything needs to be resolved in a moment and you, you observed that, you're daughter has indicated that she feels abandoned when it's not resolved in the moment. But of course, that's in conflict with what you need to get back into this sort of resourced space. This non-triggered space, a space where you can actually access your wisdom easily. So while you might find a way to get to that toolbox when you're triggered, right now, you're experimenting with another path and that requires time and you know you're gonna try this. So it sounds like what you're saying is maybe bring your daughter in on that and letting her know and I need this and I'm not abandoning you. Like you're kind of setting the situation up for some, for some success, it sounds like. 

Charlene: Yeah, I mean, it’s our relationship after all. So, I mean I think we need to create it together. 

Lisa: Yes. Yes.

Charlene: Yeah, I like it. 

Lisa: Yes. Yeah, you're making an agreement together which is really like the opposite of being a conflict.

Charlene: Right, yeah. Having a good home base to go to when we're lost, you know, getting that string back so that we can find our way to that peace, peaceful space is good. 

Lisa: Yeah, Charlene we have to stop in just a minute. And so, I just want to check in with you and see where you are at now.

Charlene: Yeah, I'm excited to have a conversation with her about this. I know she will be open to this and then, I like the fact that together we will create that kind of relationship that we want. That I want and she wants, so that we can both feel heard. I feel really good. 

Lisa: Okay. 

Charlene: Thank you. 

Lisa: Really good, and excited are the emotions that you're ending this session with. And you started with very different ones. 

Charlene: Yes, 

Lisa: Good work Charlene. You brought yourself here. 

Charlene: Thank you, Lisa. I appreciate you. Thank you so much, 

Lisa: likewise. Thank you for coaching. 

Charlene: Thank you. 

Lisa: Okay, so I just want to capture a thought or two from you about what that was like for you. 

Charlene: I feel good about it. 

Lisa: And I'm so glad that you found three resources and wrote them down, so you don't forget about them because we can go deeper with those. We just scratched the surface on those three things.

Charlene: I love it actually. It's like a perfect time. 

Lisa: Well, I just want to say Charlene that I admire you and your intention around this and I wonder, if your daughter knew that you are bringing so much intention to how you be in your 100% of your relationship together, how she might feel.

Charlene: Yeah.

Lisa: You're bringing a lot of integrity and intention to this and it's really beautiful to see.

Charlene: Yeah. 

Lisa: And, thank you, Charlene. 

Charlene: Thank you Lisa. 

Vimla: Wow Lisa that was, that session was intense. I had all kinds of feelings emotions that I experienced. A moment of sadness and also several moments of joy and hope in that session. I think hope was towards the end when your client got connected to her wisdom and created a path, that access to wisdom even when she is triggered, that brought hope and joy. And, I feel like as a parent maybe I have some hope for myself too. 

Lisa: hmm, yeah, that’s great, that’s great to hear. And I too felt that experience of hope and joy when Charlene reached that sort of breakthrough moment where she was able to access the thing that has been her’s all along. And, you know throughout the session what I was really trying to stay present with was the spaciousness. Keeping the space open and walking next to Charlene as she explored it. So that feels like a real honor to do. 

Vimla: Yes, yes absolutely yeah. Alright so let’s talk about coaching skills? 

Lisa: Okay, so chief among them was curiosity. We are using this term like, in the space, and as we were walking throughout the coaching space, the thing that I was really focused on was asking the questions that just seemed right there, that I was genuinely curious to know the answers to because they were right there. Also there was really deep deep listening happening. I was hearing the words she was saying, I was hearing the words that she was not saying, that kind of emotional quality to the space. And inviting her to articulate it, because even though I felt it, I can’t name it exactly because it's hers. The third skill that I’d pull out is keeping the focus on Charlene, on the client, and what is her agenda. And inviting her to come back to that agenda even when she got distracted or felt the urge to leave. And I feel that sometimes when we are exploring a space we feel an urge to leave because it can feel hard, it can feel challenging, it can feel unfamiliar. There are emotions related to that, sometimes those emotions can be challenging to be with. So, the focus was to just keep bringing her back. So, curiosity, deep listening and staying on the agenda. 

Vimla: Yes. Yes absolutely. I loved how you masterfully kept the focus kept the agenda. In the coaching there was a mention around, you know, when we are triggered we step into the fight, flight, freeze or please moments. And I think I witnessed some of that in the coaching session. So, when talking about these difficult moments, your client was experiencing those moments, reliving those moments. And had a sense of like I want to leave this moment, distraction. And you kept gently bringing her back. Acknowledging her and bringing her back. Acknowledging where she was and bringing her back to her agenda of wanting to be differently, wanting to have access to her wisdom, show up as her wise self in her conversations with her daughter. That was amazing.  

Lisa: Yeah, and it is worth acknowledging our client for the qualities she brought to make that happen. I’ll pick out one quality, she had to bring a lot of courage to the call, because it is easier just to check out and put our focus elsewhere. So, she brought a tremendous amount of courage to make this happen for herself. 

Vimla: Yes absolutely, that was a courageous session. Alright so for our listeners, I am curious, what is your access door to your wisdom. In moments when you are triggered how do you access your wisdom. 

Lisa: Yeah, and if the first thing that comes to mind is I don't know, maybe start with where you are, what you do and how you transition from that to wisdom. Because sometimes the flight to wisdom requires a change point, it's not necessarily a non-stop flight. 

Vimla: Yes absolutely. And, if you would like to explore your access to your wisdom in a coaching session please feel free to reach out to us. You can reach out to us at www.yourvitalself.com/coachingconfidential. So, Lisa what’s the next episode about?

Lisa: Oh well, this is actually episode ten, and those who have listened to the beginning of the season will know that Vimla and I had committed to do ten sessions together, really just for us, to be able to have fun, to explore what podcasting is all about and to play for our higher why. So we actually decided to record an episode eleven. And in episode eleven we come back to being coached. So clients for our next episode are going to be your hosts Vimla and myself. And we are going to be coached by a friend of ours on what i was like to do these ten episodes to play in this way. So if you are curious stay tuned. 

Vimla: Yes it is going to be an interesting one. Alright, until next time!