In episode 17 of the Coaching Confidential Podcast we present a session with Jan Taylor of Get Lively Health and Fitness. Jan is a successful business owner who has built her brand on her vitality. In this session Jan brings a desire to shift the relationship she has with her energy. In this powerful session you'll hear Jan bring a deep level of self awareness, lots of curiosity, and a heap of courage to this session where coach and client spiral down the path of 'relationship with...' and land on judgment.
So many of us are plagued by our own judgment and lose a lot of energy to this. What if we could take this energy back and use it for something that really matters to us?
In this episode you'll also hear Jan come up with some ideas that will support shifting her relationship with judgment - which will in turn support a shift in her relationship with her energy.
If you struggle with judgment this episode may be one you want to hear.
#innercritic #judgment #roadblocks #curiosity #courage #energy #relationshipwithself #coachingconfidentialpodcast
If you would like to sample coaching for yourSelf, CONTACT US.
If you'd like to share what listening was like for you, DROP A LINE. We'd love to hear you!
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Follow us on LinkedIn.
#thecoachingconfidentialpodcast #coaching #podcast
In episode 17 of the Coaching Confidential Podcast we present a session with Jan Taylor of Get Lively Health and Fitness. Jan is a successful business owner who has built her brand on her vitality. In this session Jan brings a desire to shift the relationship she has with her energy. In this powerful session you'll hear Jan bring a deep level of self awareness, lots of curiosity, and a heap of courage to this session where coach and client spiral down the path of 'relationship with...' and land on judgment.
So many of us are plagued by our own judgment and lose a lot of energy to this. What if we could take this energy back and use it for something that really matters to us?
In this episode you'll also hear Jan come up with some ideas that will support shifting her relationship with judgment - which will in turn support a shift in her relationship with her energy.
If you struggle with judgment this episode may be one you want to hear.
#innercritic #judgment #roadblocks #curiosity #courage #energy #relationshipwithself #coachingconfidentialpodcast
If you would like to sample coaching for yourSelf, CONTACT US.
If you'd like to share what listening was like for you, DROP A LINE. We'd love to hear you!
Follow us on Instagram.
Follow us on Facebook.
Follow us on LinkedIn.
#thecoachingconfidentialpodcast #coaching #podcast
Vimla | 00:03
Hello, and welcome to Coaching Confidential, a podcast hosted by ICF-certified professional coaches Lisa Di Mateo, and myself, Vimla Gulabani. In this podcast, we bring you inside real life unscripted coaching session, and at the end of the coaching session, you hear from the client about the impact of the coaching, and you also hear about the skills that the coach used. So in today's episode, Lisa is the coach. Uh, so Lisa, what's our client's topic?
Lisa | 00:35
So today's topic is about energy, our relationship with our energy, and ultimately, if we are getting right down to it, and you'll hear this as the episode gets underway, it's about how we feel about ourselves and our judgments about ourselves. We're talking with Jan Taylor of Get Lively Health and Fitness, and one of the main discoveries of this session is how our judgments, particularly those that we have with ourselves or against ourselves or for ourselves, can tie up a lot of our, our energy.
Vimla | 01:21
Hmm. Sounds like me. <laugh>,
Lisa | 01:24
<laugh>. And you're in good company,
Vimla | 01:27
<laugh>.
Lisa | 01:28
I'm right there with you, <laugh>.
Vimla | 01:30
Yeah. And I'm sure some of our listeners can also relate to this. Um, so looking forward to the session.
Lisa | 01:37
<laugh>. Yes. Enjoy the episode. We hope we find it thought-provoking. Maybe some self-inquiry comes up or maybe you find some inspiration for yourself here.
Hello and welcome to the Coaching Confidential podcast, Jan Taylor.
Jan | 01:58
Hello. Thank you for having me.
Lisa | 02:00
Oh, it's awesome. Awesome. Awesome to have you. And for listeners, Jan and I actually used to work together
Jan | 02:07
A very long time ago, <laugh>
Lisa | 02:09
More than 20 years ago now. Yep. More than 20 years ago now. And we have very infrequent interactions, um, like long spans of time go by before we have an opportunity like this, but when we do, it's always super yummy. Yes.
Jan | 02:25
Ooh, good way to describe it. Totally agree.
Lisa | 02:28
Yeah. And we're very lucky to have you as a client today on our podcast where we're gonna do some coaching with you. And I think maybe if it's okay, maybe we could start with sharing with our listeners a little bit about who you are and what it is you do. Would you be willing to share a little bit about what you're up to in life at this time?
Jan | 02:48
Oh, I'd love to. So at the end of the day, I say that I am a lively gal on a mission to help you smile more. And I facilitate that through being a fitness studio owner, a coach, and also a podcaster. So I have a lifestyle studio here in Watertown where we offer a variety of lively and energetic and strength building course classes and personal training, health and wellness coaching. And we are now, actually, I'll just share because you asked, as we are actually in two weeks moving into a new space, a fabulous, new, bigger, exciting space. And one of the things that we're going to be doing at our new place is offering people the opportunity to host gatherings. So think of a milestone birthday where you gather your family and friends together to move together to celebrate together, as I like to say, to squat, to smile, sweat and snack together. And we're really excited to be integrating even more of what we do into people's daily lives. So not just the place you go for a great class, also the place you go to celebrate life and, and do great things. So that's me.
Lisa | 03:58
Oh, Jan, that sounds so awesome. I love that this next level of growth involves bringing in community and celebration and doing it around movement.
Jan | 04:12
Yes. Yes. I just think that there's such a beautiful marriage between all of that, and it's, it's the right time. People are more aware of how important it is for us to move our bodies. And I feel like we're at this beautiful moment in our history where people are recognizing finally that you don't have to look a certain way and go to the gym five times a week for two hours in order to be someone who exercises. It looks like a variety of different things. And so we really pride ourselves on providing that space for people to come and explore what movement means to them. So I mean, what better, better way to do it than to marry it with a party? So
Lisa | 04:52
Yeah, for sure. I love that. I love that. And I always feel like it feels less, I don't know, like something you should be doing, um, and more like something you actually want to do, want
Jan | 05:03
To do. That's right. Yeah. That's right. I always say that we are so blessed because we've got lifelong gym goers and self-proclaimed. I'm not a gym person alike that work out right alongside each other. And that is the spirit that we've created at our space, because we don't want to be the place where you only go if you've met a lifelong gym goer. We want everyone to feel welcome and to come in and find their relationship to movement and learn how to move their bodies and really, at the end of the day, define for themselves what getting lively means for them. So it's quite fun.
Lisa | 05:37
Wonderful. Wonderful. We'll include how to find you on the interwebs and in the world, in the community locally in our show notes. But is there one single source you'd like to share with listeners that they can just keep in their head and go to?
Jan | 05:49
Absolutely. Get lively now. Dot com.
Lisa | 05:53
Get lively now. Dot com. Sweet. Well, thanks for sharing that context with us, Jan. And I'm thinking about this idea of movement and this idea of you having a container where you hold people in an experience. And I feel like that is like a similar thread to the kind of work that we do in coaching, right. And that we're about to do here together. So you and I are about to have a conversation that we call a coaching conversation, and I want to check in with you to see if there was anything at all that you would need from me to feel comfortable to have the conversation.
Jan | 06:31
I, I don't think so. I feel, um, I feel ready to chat <laugh>, and you're so welcoming and your energy is always so nurturing. It's funny we mentioned that these 12 year time spans, but I feel like I saw you yesterday. So <laugh> Yeah. You, you set the stage beautifully. Thank you, <laugh>.
Lisa | 06:49
Ah, all right. Thank you for that reflection, really and truly. Great. So then I'll call that what we call in coaching our designed alliance. Normally in a private coaching session, we'll go into things like, you know, this is gonna be between you and I, but the truth of the matter is it is not gonna be between you and I. It's gonna be between you and me and anybody who hears it. Yes. Let's start with what would support you in this conversation. If you were to have something at the end of our coaching session that you do not have now, what would be helpful for you?
Jan | 07:20
So I would say that right now it would be helping me to find a better relationship with my level of energy.
Lisa | 07:34
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay.
Jan | 07:36
That is, that is something that I have definitely been struggling through, so that would be very helpful.
Lisa | 07:43
Yeah. Okay. Let me just read that back. Help you find a better relationship with your energy level. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's maybe start with how would you describe your relationship today?
Jan | 07:59
So, it's been a struggle for me as of late. And just to share why I am someone who, through my life, I would say is naturally very energetic. My energy is something that is commented on often. I believe it's something that draws people into work with me. It is how my business got off the ground. And I believe what people are initially were attracted to when I was younger, I felt like I had an abundance of energy. I am now, as we move into our late forties, I am struggling with maintaining the level of energy that I want personally to have as I do all of these things. And also deliver on the energy that I know people come to expect in working with me. I mean, heck, the name of my businesses get lively. It, the name grew out of the energy that I feel inside of me.
Jan | 08:59
I am fueled by being with other people. I am absolutely one of those people that you connect with another person, you put me in front of a crowd, and it doesn't matter how tired I was, four minutes beforehand, I come alive. What I've been really struggling with lately, and as part of all of this transition, moving into a new space, is the moments in between all of that, I am just finding myself crashing. And so when I say I want to come to a better place with my relationship, with my energy, I get very judgmental and very disappointed in how I feel about my current energy level.
Lisa | 09:34
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what I heard you describe to me is the quality of the energy. Mm.
Jan | 09:43
Yeah.
Lisa | 09:44
How it is, it seems to be changing mm-hmm. <affirmative> or in transition, and ultimately how you feel about that. And I heard two things. I heard that you feel disappointed and that you feel in a place of judgment around that.
Jan | 10:03
Yeah.
Lisa | 10:04
Yeah. Okay. All right. That's your current relationship.
Jan | 10:10
Yes.
Lisa | 10:11
Okay. All right. How would you like the relationship to be if you could choose it?
Jan | 10:19
So ultimately I would love to have more energy. I would love to not feel well. Hmm. Okay. Let me think about this. I know what it is that I want. I want more energy. I want to feel like I did 15 years ago. Now we know that there's a reality factor in all of that, but if you're asking me what do I want my relationship to be, I mean, of course I would love to have a level of acceptance mm-hmm. <affirmative> and a less judgment on myself, because it is one of those things that, and, and I coach people on this all the time as a health and a fitness coach, the comparison trap as a business owner, I see people seemingly outputting so much. And so I will judge myself against that, and I will get frustrated that I don't feel like I've got enough energy throughout the day to put out as much as I want to.
Lisa | 11:25
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm hearing kind of two different things here, two different buckets. On one hand, there is the energy mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the quality of it. Yeah. How it's been, yeah. How it is now and how you would like it to be. But that's the actual energy that's on one hand. And on the other hand, you're speaking about your feelings about it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> your relationship with this thing
Jan | 11:55
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Lisa | 11:56
And I'm hearing you say that currently your relationship is one of disappointments mm-hmm. <affirmative> and one of easy judgments. And you talked a little bit about kind of what fuels this, right. <laugh>. Right. So we've got two different things here. Which one of these things would you like to focus on?
Jan | 12:16
Hmm. Uh, so I'm, I'm pausing to think what would be the most productive, the knee jerk reaction inside of me is to say, tell me how to get more energy. Like, tell me how to get getting my energy back. Yeah. And I think it's probably more fruitful to think about how to be more respectful and less judgmental about my relationship with my energy.
Lisa | 12:44
Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. So I'm hearing you choose of the two things, the actual energy itself and your relationship with it, that you'd like to put our coaching focus on the relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I also heard you say another word about how you'd like it to be, and you added, in addition to what you said before, acceptance and less judgment. I heard you say respectful.
Jan | 13:08
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Lisa | 13:10
Yeah. Okay. Great. So really, is it fair then to say that our goal today is to help you find, um, you said, help me find a better relationship with my energy level. And that looks like acceptance, less judgment, and respectful. So if we could find you a pathway to that at the end of our time, would that feel like a good use of our coaching time?
Jan | 13:40
Yes, it would.
Lisa | 13:41
Okay. All right. So we are hound dogs on the path, <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative> on the sense of helping you get to a relationship with your current energy level mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which could change on its own, by the way, like Right. You might not actually have to do anything about that. Right. But here's how it is today. Yeah. And you wanna have a respectful, less judgmental, accepting relationship with what is now
Jan | 14:13
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Lisa | 14:14
Okay. All right. Cool. So now we know where you're coming from mm-hmm.
Jan | 14:20
<affirmative>,
Lisa | 14:20
We know where you want to go. And the next logical thing is like, well, what's in the way? And I heard you name a thing or two, but before I read back that, like, let me just ask you like three or four bullets. Yeah. What's in the way.
Jan | 14:38
So one thing is my perception of how it used to be
Lisa | 14:43
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Jan | 14:44
And so there's definitely that. The second would be my perception of what others output. So comparing and comparing <laugh>, I guess. Same bullet.
Lisa | 14:55
Yep.
Jan | 14:55
And the third I would say is that I have a desire to do more mm-hmm. <affirmative> and output more. And I think that it's just a, Hmm, how would I describe this? What is in the way I'm in the way, I'm in the way of myself. I get in my own way. And I would say allow myself to slip into holding onto that, to that story that I don't have the energy that I used to. And then therefore, of course, living it out. So, yeah.
Lisa | 15:36
Yeah.
Jan | 15:37
So I'm in the way.
Lisa | 15:39
Okay. All right. Yeah. Here's what I heard you say, I'm in the way, and the things that you are doing, or the ways that you are being
Jan | 15:55
Mm-hmm.
Lisa | 15:55
<affirmative> include sort of an attachment to wanting something else to be true
Jan | 16:02
Mm-hmm.
Lisa | 16:02
<affirmative> than what is comparison Yep. Of others. So you're comparing yourself to some other experience that isn't now you're comparing yourself to others
Jan | 16:18
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Lisa | 16:19
And you're comparing yourself to the past.
Jan | 16:22
Right.
Lisa | 16:24
Okay. And actually the, I, I reuse that word. That's not, you didn't exactly say this that way. Is there another word that fits better for you?
Jan | 16:37
Which word?
Lisa | 16:38
Uh, than comparison.
Jan | 16:40
Oh, no. Comparison is definitely, yeah. <laugh>. No, that's, that, that's the bullseye.
Lisa | 16:46
Yeah. Okay. Hmm. The other thing that I, I think you said that I'd love to put in front of you that I think is in this list, but the word isn't there is judgment.
Jan | 17:07
Yeah. That's there. <laugh>. Yeah. That is definitely there.
Lisa | 17:12
Yeah. What's the relationship between the comparison and the judgment?
Jan | 17:20
I think that they are a long wedded couple <laugh> a long, they've been together for a long time. I compare, and then I judge, I compare, and then I judge. So they're hand in hand.
Lisa | 17:37
Yeah. Yeah. Almost sounds like a codependent relationship. Hmm.
Jan | 17:43
Yes.
Lisa | 17:44
Like they kind of need one another.
Jan | 17:46
Right.
Lisa | 17:49
<affirmative>. But I, I actually, now that I've said that, I wanna kind of question that because if we compare, do we have to judge?
Jan | 17:59
Right. You're right. We don't, I think the comparison, well, hmm. Does the comparison fuel the judgment or does the judgment fuel the comparison? Comparison can be helpful. I think that there is an element of comparison that can be inspirational and educational and many positive things. The judgment in those as it relates to comparing, I think is where the problem is.
Lisa | 18:28
Yeah. Okay. I love that actually, what you just said about comparison, providing inspiration or education mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that feels very generative.
Jan | 18:41
Yeah. I, I I believe it's true.
Lisa | 18:45
Yeah. What, what would you say, how is the comparison serving you here?
Jan | 18:55
In the context of how I'm comparing my past, my personal past performance, my perceived performance against others, it's not serving me. It's discouraging. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. So it's frustrating. I think about all that's in my head right now. I don't know why this is popping up, but when I was in grad school, I was working full-time and I was managing, it's when I worked in higher education and I was managing a president, our new president, and a 27 city inaugural tour. And I, I mean, I think back on that, and I think I've threw in running a half marathon at the time. Like, I was just cranking through life. And I honestly think when I have more on my plate, I tend to be more energetic. But I think back on that, I'm like, how did I do it all? How did I do all of that? Because I feel now, although here comes the judgment again, it's like, well, Jane, you have different things on your plate now. I feel like I have less on my plate now. Again, that's kind of a judgment than I'm calling myself out on as I'm saying it. And I'm frustrated that I don't feel that I've got what I had back then.
Lisa | 20:15
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So is that's, that's comparison to the past.
Jan | 20:22
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa | 20:24
Okay.
Jan | 20:24
It's probably a little revisionist history going on, God <laugh>.
Lisa | 20:30
Yeah. Monday morning, quarterbacking can, it's a real, can go both ways. Yeah. Yes. Totally. Totally. So, I, I guess let's come back to that question. Um, how is is this serving you? How is the comparison serving you? You, he said it's not, it's actually discouraging me and it's frustrating me. Is there something, it, like, if you really just kind of search through your mental and and somatic files right now, is there something you could be getting out of this, out of this comparison?
Jan | 21:09
I could, I could be using it as fuel to remind myself what I'm capable of doing. Mm-hmm.
Lisa | 21:18
<affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Jan | 21:19
And so there's that piece of it. I, I mean, my own, per my own past performance can be an indicator of what I'm, what I'm capable of, what I've achieved in terms of me comparing myself to others. Well, I'm not sure at this phase, this point that's helpful for me right now.
Lisa | 21:42
Yeah. Okay. Cause I
Jan | 21:44
Just, I just end up feeling like I'm coming up short.
Lisa | 21:47
Yep. Okay. All right. So you've said that comparing yourself to others is in the way mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but you now are saying, and you know what, a actually, it's not bringing me anything really that is useful to me. Right. Is it, is there a way in which you can let that go?
Jan | 22:07
Yeah. Yeah. I can stop getting <laugh>, I can stop, stop allowing it to take up space.
Lisa | 22:15
Yeah. How do you do that?
Jan | 22:17
So I would say that that has been a lifelong journey with a variety of things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. I think about, uh, gosh, recently as I was, I mentioned that I'm moving into a new studio, and I found out rather abruptly, I was in a sublease situation that abruptly ended. And as I was making quick decisions, having to move quickly on finding a new space, I was finding myself only focusing on, I can't afford a single space in this area. I'm not gonna be able to continue to do what I do. I'm not, I'm gonna have to downsize. I was looking at everything negative about it. And that went on for probably three, four weeks. And then one morning I woke up and I said, Jan, you focus on that and continued down this horrible path, <laugh>, or you take all the energy that you are putting into convincing yourself why you can't afford it, and focus on doubling your revenue so you can, and so every morning I wake up and I say to, I've said to myself, since then, I will double my revenue. I will make this happen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so for me, in order, that's just an example of how I stop doing things that I know aren't serving me. I've got to look at, so how do you take what you're putting into convincing yourself of this not great thing? And what's the other side of it? What could you think of instead? And so that is typically how I navigate myself, <laugh>. I know I coach myself, I guess. Yeah.
Lisa | 23:58
No, I, I That's beautiful. I heard a couple things in there. I heard like, first of all, I have a conversation with myself, <laugh>. Right. And like, I have to imagine that's a pretty, like, I love having a conversation with you, so I hope you enjoy having a conversation with you. You know, you are the subject matter expert Right. On you.
Jan | 24:18
Right. Right.
Lisa | 24:19
So you have a conversation with yourself, and then what I heard you say is you make a conscious choice.
Jan | 24:24
Yeah.
Lisa | 24:25
Yeah. And then I imagine there's more that comes behind that. Sure. You started to allude to, you know, designing your reality around serving that conscious choice. Right? Yeah. So that's pretty powerful. Is that something that would help you here with this judgment of others' syndrome?
Jan | 24:48
Yes. <laugh>, yes. And it always makes me laugh because I, I will, when I finally get to a place where I recognize that I've got this tool or this approach that has worked for me in other ways. So why did I go so far down the path before I realized I know that I can do this and I can change the way I'm thinking about this.
Lisa | 25:10
Yeah. Yeah. I think the fact that you actually get to that question is so incredibly powerful. I, I get asking, why did it take me so long? But the fact that you actually did is <laugh> is like, oh my God. It's, it's powerful. It's powerful. So in this situation, having a conversation with yourself and making a conscious choice and then acting around that choice, just, I, I don't know if it's, if it's easy for it to come to you, what does that look like around this comparison of others?
Jan | 25:46
So I think that it's, I I would need to break down like, what are the real energy drains? Like, I think I need to, you know, <laugh>, how great that Miley just came out with this song. I can talk to myself for hours. Cause <laugh>, I feel like I'm just living it. I, I think that one of the things that I need to do is really get clear on what throughout my day is draining my energy. Where are, where are the leaks mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and how do I address them? I know one of the things that I have done recently that has been helping is mile long to-do lists that are just so draining to look at. And so I had to get myself back into a place of using planning software where I could chart things and, and manage my time in a different way.
Jan | 26:41
And so that has absolutely helped. The other thing that I've done that is that I really have had to work on releasing my judgment around, because I know that a lot of the times it's really what I need. So, as, um, someone who owns a fitness studio and who trains, it's like, you're very busy in the morning and you're very busy in the evening. You tend to have some space in the middle of the day. And so one of my struggles has always been how do I go from being client serving, like forward facing, to getting behind this computer and doing all that goes into managing this business? And that's usually when my energy just zaps. And so I have found that I have to give myself a transition period. And frankly, in recent, a lot, a lot of the times what I need is a nap, and I need to just shut my brain off and nap.
Jan | 27:34
And then when I wake up, I know what it is that I have to do and I can do it. Now as I've started doing this, I've been very judgmental about it. Like, seriously, you're napping, really? And, but I'm <laugh> as I'm doing it, it's working <laugh>. And so again, it's like, gotta release the judgment. Why don't I feel like I can do that? Or that I have to make excuses as to the reasons why. Oh, well, I'm a terrible sleeper. Oh, perimenopause. Oh, this, that. Yeah. Why do I do that, Jan, you function better when you take a nap.
Lisa | 28:09
Yeah.
Jan | 28:10
And so, you know, it's like, there's elements of it that I just, I have to keep breaking down and figuring out where's the drain and how can I better function?
Lisa | 28:21
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have to say, Jan, to me, that actually sounds like two elements that you named that you want in your relationship with your energy level one. It sounds very respectful.
Jan | 28:36
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You're right.
Lisa | 28:39
It also sounds like a form of acceptance because, you know, like, hey, my day goes like this beginning, middle, and end. Right. And it's a long day, and the stuff in the middle has an impact on me.
Jan | 28:59
Right.
Lisa | 29:00
Uh, actually it all has an impact on you, but you're understanding and accepting that the work in the middle has a different kind of impact on you than the work at the beginning and the end.
Jan | 29:12
Right. Right. Yeah. It's the middle where I struggle.
Lisa | 29:20
Yeah. Okay. So the first thing I just wanna say is, can you see that already there is some respect and acceptance present here?
Jan | 29:32
I I can, I can, yeah. Yeah. I start to realize what it is that as I start to realize what it is that helps me get to where I want to go, I, I immediately wanna compare and say, well, but other people don't have to do that. But I'm jumping to that less quickly.
Lisa | 29:54
Yeah.
Jan | 29:55
And, and like you're saying, trying to respect that, well, if this works, why would you not do it?
Lisa | 30:03
Yep. Yep. Well, I wonder if the judgment is actually keeping you from having more respect and more acceptance on that plate.
Jan | 30:17
Yes. I believe the judgment does hold me back from having that.
Lisa | 30:22
Okay. Are you up to looking at that judgment for a minute or two here?
Jan | 30:27
Eh, let's go for it.
Lisa | 30:28
<laugh>. Okay. All right. You know, I just, I wanna say that judgment is one of the most common roadblocks
Jan | 30:38
Yeah.
Lisa | 30:39
Between people and where they wanna be. And I say that as a person who has places I want to be and who judges mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I also say that as a coach who works with clients every single day for whom this comes up and Right. So I offer that just as a way of normalizing that's how it is for most of us.
Jan | 31:01
Right.
Lisa | 31:03
So, where would you like to start in terms of looking at this judgment?
Jan | 31:11
Well, I, let's see. I know, I'm pretty sure I know what it's rooted in, where it comes from, from a historical, how I was raised standpoint. I guess what's more useful is not to look at that. And, and I, I guess that looking at it with a lens of really making it clear to me how it's holding me back is perhaps most useful, because those are the hard things to then turn an eye to.
Lisa | 31:54
Yeah. Okay. So you'd like to look at how this judgment is holding you back.
Jan | 32:02
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Lisa | 32:03
Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, where would you like to start there? Because I kind of feel like you've named a few things already in this session.
Jan | 32:15
Yeah. I'm, yes, <laugh>. It's, it's all becoming very clear. I am, of course, just thinking, well, Jim, what would you say to a client? You'd say, take the freaking nap <laugh>. Like, why would you ever not just take the nap if you had the time to do it? Um, so there's that, there's definitely that there is <affirmative>. I think that, and I actually, I know I wrote this down at one point earlier this year in a notebook. I think what would be really helpful for me is if I defined for myself right now what I wanted my energy to be. And rather than saying I want it to be how it was 15 years ago, just in my life right now with my life situation now, which is not what it was, of course, no two days are the same, nevermind 15 years later. I, I, I need to define what it is that I want for it to be now so that I can actually then allow myself to have the opportunity to live into that.
Lisa | 33:24
Okay. All right. So I wanna just pause us here for a second. I wanna be exactly where you just said, I wanna be able to define where I want my energy to be. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I just wanna make sure, at the beginning we were talking about the energy and we were talking about your relationship with it.
Jan | 33:47
Yeah. Right.
Lisa | 33:48
And you chose the relationship. And if you wanna be talking about the energy and what you want from it or for it, I just wanna make sure that you're coming back and consciously choosing this.
Jan | 34:01
Right. Yeah, no, you're right. And thank you for pointing that out, because I think that the more helpful thing is for me to not judge, not judge it.
Lisa | 34:15
What's your relationship with judgment?
Jan | 34:20
Uh, um, let's see, what is my relationship with judgment? Well, I judge myself for judging <laugh>. <laugh>. So there's that <laugh> <affirmative>. I, I, ugh, ugh. I hate judgment. I hate it. I don't like, I don't like judging other people. I don't like judging myself. I don't, I just, ugh.
Lisa | 34:51
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I really am feeling that.
Jan | 34:56
Hmm.
Lisa | 34:58
Like, my relationship with judgment is that I hate it. Yeah. Yeah. How would you like your relationship with judgment to be?
Jan | 35:13
I would like it to just be, gosh, if there's a way for it to be neutral mm-hmm.
Lisa | 35:19
<affirmative> neutral.
Jan | 35:20
Yeah. I mean, gosh, I just would love it to feel neutral
Lisa | 35:24
Mm-hmm.
Jan | 35:24
<affirmative> that I don't expect anything of it either way. It just doesn't impact me. Yeah. And it's not something that I do to myself or to others.
Lisa | 35:35
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Kind of like a plant that you dust around.
Jan | 35:41
Yeah. <laugh>. Right, right.
Lisa | 35:44
Yeah. Okay. If you had a relationship with judgment that was neutral, what would that look like?
Jan | 35:53
Hmm. Let's see. I, well, <laugh>, I mean, just I'm thinking, well, then I would do things and I wouldn't, I would just do them. They would have periods on the end of sentences. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, an action would be an action. A thought would be a thought. It wouldn't be something that stays longer than it's supposed to. Hmm. That it doesn't overstay its welcome because I don't then attach onto it.
Lisa | 36:22
Yeah. Okay. All right. Let me, let me introduce another metaphor. Is it sort of like, are you sort of describing the person that is there that you really don't maybe have a lot of use for, but you know, they're gonna be there and you, they're not going to influence what you do in your world, even though they're there, they're there. I see you like, but you know, straight ahead.
Jan | 36:56
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and maybe with even less reaction, maybe even with, without even acknowledging that they're just not my thing, <laugh>, you know, they're just literally there.
Lisa | 37:07
Yeah. Okay. But
Jan | 37:09
Without any impact.
Lisa | 37:11
Yeah. So, so we're going from like, this relationship of hate and, and how are you being, uh, and, and by the way, I realize that we're like really meta right now. Cause you were talking about relationship with energy, and now we're talking about relationship with judgment. Right. Right. <laugh>. Right. But maybe this is good. We're exploring the thing that's in the way and trying to change our relationship with the thing that's in the way and seeing what that does. Right. For what it is you're wanting. Yeah. So when you're hating on judgment, like, what is actually happening? What are you, how are you, what are you doing? Or how are you being?
Jan | 37:48
So I typically, when I'm hating on judgment, I would say that my energy drains even more, and I tend to not take action.
Lisa | 38:03
Yeah. Okay. So you, your energy goes down Yep. And you freeze. Mm-hmm.
Jan | 38:09
<affirmative>.
Lisa | 38:10
Okay. All right. And is there anything else there anything else that you're actively doing? And maybe it's not just in the hating on energy, but, uh, sorry, the hating on judgment, but in the judgment?
Jan | 38:34
Uh, um hmm. Uh, look, there's something swirling. I just can't put words on it. Um, I, I, I guess all I can come up with is I wish I was a different way.
Lisa | 38:58
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you've got your vital energy wrapped up in thoughts
Jan | 39:07
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Lisa | 39:08
And this wishing, does it ever produce what you want?
Jan | 39:17
Um, yeah, there's, yeah. Uh, yeah, there's moments where I would say the me Yes. I would say that. I think, I think what you're asking me is, are there moments where you feel like you produce you, you do get to where you wanna be? Yes.
Lisa | 39:37
Actually, no, that's not what I asked. Okay. <laugh>, that, that's not what I asked. Is the wishing getting you there?
Jan | 39:47
No.
Lisa | 39:48
What is getting you there? You were just about to describe that. I think
Jan | 39:52
When I, when I break things down and figure out what the, the next action is.
Lisa | 39:59
Okay. Okay.
Jan | 40:00
I, I think, honestly, when I've released the judgment, when I do have those moments of releasing it, I think, well, okay, Janet, it's not that complicated. Or You're making this more than it is. What if you just did this?
Lisa | 40:13
Okay. So I'm hearing you say, when you get into action
Jan | 40:16
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Lisa | 40:17
So I'm hearing you say that when you're hating on judgment, your energy is wrapped up, your energy goes, it's wrapped up, your energy is wrapped up in the thoughts it goes down. Yep. And the thing that changes that is you getting into action. Mm-hmm.
Jan | 40:36
<affirmative>.
Lisa | 40:36
Okay. All right. You want your relationship with judgment to be neutral.
Jan | 40:44
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Lisa | 40:45
Yeah. What needs to happen to make that happen?
Jan | 40:49
Uh, well, uh, I guess that I would, Hmm. That's a good question. You know, I don't, I don't know. Okay. That's something that I definitely need to think about.
Lisa | 41:11
Okay. So I wanna just kind of, as we're kind of in this wind down phase of helping you get to a place where your relationship with energy, not to be confused with your relationship with judgment, your relationship with energy could be more accepting and respectful. We know that there is some, an acceptance and respect there.
Jan | 41:38
Yes.
Lisa | 41:39
Right. That we didn't actually see there before.
Jan | 41:42
Right.
Lisa | 41:44
And that judge, you also wanted it to be less judgmental, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we, we know that less judgment would probably create more acceptance and respect, and who knows what else. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But you also said you just wanted it to be less judgmental. And so we went to exploring your relationship with judgment, and you said, well, right now my relationship is that I hate it. And that the thing that gets me out of my own way, maybe it doesn't actually transform your relationship with judgment, but it gets you out of the way and into some energy, is to get into action. Yeah. So that's one pathway, right. Ultimately, you'd like to shift the relationship at its source
Jan | 42:36
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Lisa | 42:38
So you can have more pathways to less judgment.
Jan | 42:45
Yeah. And I, and I think that it translates to less leaks in the energy that I'm so avidly seeking out <laugh>.
Lisa | 42:55
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, so we know that you can stop the leaks by getting into action. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, although there might be a paradox there, does getting into action require that energy mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Jan | 43:10
At times. Sure.
Lisa | 43:11
Yeah. You said that transforming my relationship with judgment to be neutral could stop the leak.
Jan | 43:22
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Lisa | 43:23
And I just wanna ask, is there anything else that comes up for you when you think about plugging that leak?
Jan | 43:33
I, what immediately came to mind was, was just being kinder to myself, I think about not being harsh with myself, about the need for the leak to be plugged and, and just plugging it. <laugh>.
Lisa | 43:53
Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. So there's three things that you've named that can help you transform your relationship with judgment. One of them is to just get into action. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, and, and I don't know if we know that that actually changes it, or so much as it stops the hate you get outta that. Right. Right. The other is to change the relationship to be more neutral. And you have kind of a question around what needs to happen. Right. To get there. And then the other is, if I'm a little kinder with myself mm-hmm.
Jan | 44:34
<affirmative>,
Lisa | 44:35
That might shift my relationship to judgment. Right. Yeah. Okay. And this whole examination of your relationship with judgment was for the sake of having less judgment and your relationship with energy. Right. <laugh>, it's all kinda like really wound up here, right? Yes. It
Jan | 44:57
Sures,
Lisa | 44:59
We sort of tried to piece it apart mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And in this piecing apart, is there something that's clearer to you now?
Jan | 45:09
Yes. That the <laugh>, the energy's there. I'm putting all this mud on top of it, <laugh> and tramping it down, but it's there. It's different than it was. I'm different mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, but I'm making it, I I'm dulling it more by how I'm approaching it and approaching myself. But the energy's there.
Lisa | 45:44
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That is beautiful. Jan, I, I just wanna, did you just say that the energy is there and it's being spent on something else?
Jan | 45:58
Yes. I believe I did <laugh>. Yeah.
Lisa | 46:03
Okay. Yeah. So, you know, as a, um, as a coach who often comes in through the money door mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I feel like this is a powerful metaphor, right? Like, oh, I've got this wallet full of energy. Right. And I'm like, feeding, I'm spending it on this thing over here, and maybe I'm not getting what I expect to out of that. So what needs to happen,
Jan | 46:33
Right? Right. I need to, I need to decide what it is that, what is, what goes back to what you said in the beginning, what is the quality of energy that I'm seeking for various different, I I'm just realizing it's not just a blanket energy that I have to throw over everything. There's different things that require different types and kinds and amounts. And I am just realizing that sometimes I feel that I've got to have all of Jan. It, it's like hitting a mouse with a slu, you know? What is that terrible analogy? Um, killing an ant with a, I can't come up with it, but I think, you know what I'm trying to say, like, brute force. I don't have to brute force everything. Yeah. That sometimes I don't have to feel like I need to show up up here when sometimes this thing that I'm attempting to do or want to do or need energy for is more right here.
Lisa | 47:40
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like I don't have to overpay.
Jan | 47:45
Right.
Lisa | 47:46
For that thing. I don't have to overspend.
Jan | 47:49
Right, right. Yeah.
Lisa | 47:51
Right.
Jan | 47:52
I had an acting teacher once say to me, a voice coach. When I was in high school, I was in theater, and I remember I was, I was Adelaide guys and Dolls, and she came to see me. She had helped me vocally and then came to the show, and she said to me afterwards, I mean, I'm a junior in high school at this point, like I am, you know, Jan's like floating up here. And she said to me afterwards, she said, you busted on stage in a way that I thought, how is she ever gonna hold this through the show? She's like, you did kid <laugh>. And I always remember that. And I, and I mean, in some ways it becomes a judgment. Right. But, uh, that's, that's just coming to me right now, Jan. You don't have to show up like that and maintain that for everything that you do.
Lisa | 48:34
Hmm. Beautiful. That's really beautiful insight, Jan. And, um, may I offer you also a, another inquiry to take away?
Jan | 48:47
Yes, please.
Lisa | 48:48
Yeah. So yours so beautiful. You do not have to show up like that. And then if you're not taking your satchel full of energy and spending it over here on judgment
Jan | 49:05
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Lisa | 49:06
Where do you wanna spend it?
Jan | 49:10
I, I wanna spend it on nurturing my own fuel I to do the things that I want to do. Yeah. I wanna put it in the tank that builds versus just, I guess the futures <laugh>. I guess I, it's a re um, yeah. I think it's just investing in my own wellbeing.
Lisa | 49:36
Yeah. Hybrid Jan.
Jan | 49:39
Right, right. Hybrid Jan. There we go. <laugh>.
Lisa | 49:44
Yeah. I think about, just as a little analogy, and then we we're, we're going to close, actually, may I tip my coaching hat just a little bit, please.
Lisa | 49:52
<laugh>. Okay. Which basically means that, I'm gonna tell you a story. It's not coaching. I bought a hybrid vehicle after letting go of my, the same car I had for 18 years. Um, that was not a hybrid. And, um, there's like a little indicator on the dash that shows like where the power is coming from mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which like, I wish I could, had a little indicator on me. Like I could just look at my fist and say like, oh, your power is coming from judgment, Lisa, that's a, you're spending too much to stop it. Stop it. Like, get back into a, a more effective place. But on the dash, there's this little thing that shows like, based on how you're driving, is the battery, you know, powering the car or is the fuel powering the car? Right. And, um, you know, being so used to driving a car that had fuel, like I would push the gas down, you know, like come out from a stop, you know, like zero to 60 and you know, like, just basically not use the power wisely. Right. Right. But it was only gas, it was only fuel. And it was like, well, now it's, I'm looking at it and I'm like, how can I move in such a way that I'm only using the battery? Right. And <laugh>, you know, and, and because it keeps generating more energy and Right. I don't know. I feel like that's such a beautiful metaphor for us as humans. Right. You know, because we have so much natural awesomeness in here that we can continue to create from. Right.
Lisa | 51:22
With ease. It's just getting out of the habit of slamming the gas down. Yes. <laugh>.
Jan | 51:30
Right. Oh, that's such a great visual. Yes. The battery recharges the battery, the fuel just leaks out. Oh, that's good.
Lisa | 51:40
Thank you for indulging that little comparison.
Jan | 51:43
That was great.
Lisa | 51:45
As a matter of closing mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we started with the goal of helping you find a pathway to having a relationship closer to the kind you wanna have with your energy level. And you described it as acceptance, respect, and less judgment. Did we get closer to that here?
Jan | 52:06
Yeah, certainly. And in addition to feeling closer to that, I also feel inspired is the only word coming up, or I feel like I've got a new way of, uh, I feel like I've learned something. I feel like I've learned that there is a different way to look at this that will ultimately be that battery recharging the battery versus the gas pedal just pushing gas out the tailpipe.
Lisa | 52:33
Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. That was
Jan | 52:35
A good visual for me. Thank you, <laugh>. Okay.
Lisa | 52:37
All good. Good, good, good. I'm very glad I'm, I'm glad about that. I, I'm basically hearing you say I have a new perspective on the situation.
Jan | 52:45
I do. I'm hybrid tan <laugh>.
Lisa | 52:47
Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. All. So we're going to complete the coaching. Okay. To just take a few minutes just to wrap.
Jan | 53:01
Yes.
Lisa | 53:01
Is there anything that you would like to say, just to kind of transition and clear your space?
Jan | 53:07
I, um, uh, thank you, first of all, and, um, yeah. I appreciate having this idea to sit with mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Lisa | 53:18
Yeah. Okay. Cool. Awesome. Yeah, you look, your, your smile and your expression has like, something different to it. Hopeful
Jan | 53:27
<laugh>.
Lisa | 53:28
Yeah. Okay. Great. Awesome. Is there anything else? Um,
Jan | 53:34
No, you've really given me, uh, I feel relieved. I feel relieved. Yeah. I feel relieved. I feel like I was hoping to get a perspective or a tool or something from this, and I absolutely have. So thank you for that.
Lisa | 53:49
Awesome. Awesome. This was fun.
Jan | 53:51
Oh, Lisa, thank you. This was really fun. It's, yeah, I knew I would enjoy spending time with you. Always do.
Lisa | 53:58
Likewise. Likewise,
Vimla | 54:05
Lisa. That was a powerful session. How are you feeling about it?
Lisa | 54:10
I thought the session had some impact for, for the clients, especially when we got towards the end of the session. And the use of one particular coaching skill seemed to really provide Jan with a, a way of thinking about things that, I don't know. It seemed to empower her in a way.
Vimla | 54:40
Yes, yes. Absolutely. I remember the take away hybrid jam.
Lisa | 54:45
Yes, exactly. Hybrid jam. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Vimla | 54:50
Yeah. Um, so let's talk about that skill that you brought in so masterfully the skill of metaphor.
Lisa | 55:00
Yes. This is, you know, from the perspective of the ICF competencies, so the ICF being the International Coaching Federation's, competencies for professional coaches, this would fall under the category of evoking transformation, evoking transformation in the client. And the use of metaphor falls in this category. It happens to be something that I personally, as a coach have never really practiced or worked hard at. It just seems to be one of the things that I go to in life. And so it, it seems like because it's a coaching skill and because it can help clients sometimes see things differently, step into a new perspective, or, I don't know, it'd be interesting to ask clients what about the metaphor shifts things for them. Yeah. But we just know it does.
Vimla | 55:58
Yes, absolutely. I loved the metaphor that you brought in. And also, just for the sake of our listeners, I, um, and Lisa, I'm hoping you'll be okay with this. I wanna share with our listeners that one of your superpowers is the skill of metaphor. I love how you bring metaphor to all situations. And, um, I also wanna say that, um, the reason I like metaphor is that it can make a complex moment or a complex situation easy to grasp and understand when we use a metaphor. So, for example, in the coaching session, you know, the client was talking about so many things happening at the same time. And when you brought the metaphor, it really, really was something that was tangible that could be, uh, less complicated and that could be easier to hold onto. I think that's the power of metaphor.
Lisa | 57:07
Yeah. I love that reflection, Vela. I really, I really love it. It makes me think about, geez, like how could I use metaphor in my own life? <laugh> for me a little bit more, um, when things feel complex, but I really love that that read back, that it sort of unravels things, puts 'em in a new package, and then we have a new way to think about it, or some known way to relate to it that feels more accessible.
Vimla | 57:34
Yes, absolutely. So maybe encourage our listeners also to use metaphor in their lives. So if they ever come across a situation, which is hard to describe, hard to explain, try a metaphor.
Lisa | 57:51
Yeah. I'm thinking that even Google can help us with this <laugh> that might be a bit dangerous. I'm not advising that necessarily. I'm just thinking maybe, I don't know. <laugh>.
Vimla | 58:08
Yeah. All right. So, um, I also want to highlight another thing that was going on in the session, which was, um, I heard you Lisa masterfully holding the client's agenda, and the client started off in one place. There were moments when they wanted to shift gears, they would fall into a different path. And then you masterfully sort of asked them that, Hey, we started over here. Do you wanna continue over here or go over to this other place? Uh, so you were holding the client's agenda, the what they wanted out of the session.
Lisa | 58:51
Yeah. Thank you for, for, I'm using the word masterfully so many times it feels like <laugh>, a lot of compliments. However, I will say this, this is just really what a coach does in a session. It is this idea that the client comes to you and they're bringing a topic and they get to choose the topic. And if you reflect back on how things went in the beginning, there were a couple of possible containers for topics. And so, after listening to Jan for a minute or two, I named what I heard her say. It could be this, it could be this, it could be this or something else. Where do you wanna put the focus? And she chose where she wanted to put the focus. And as the coaching session got underway, she kept drifting back to one of the choices that she hadn't selected <laugh>. Yeah. And so, just as a guardian of the topic, <laugh>, my role is to come back and say, Hey, I'm noticing you keep going back over here. Would you prefer to talk about that? Or did you wanna talk about the thing that you mentioned you wanted to talk about? And I'm not attached, I'm just reading back what's happened and asking you where do you wanna be?
Vimla | 01:00:16
Yeah, absolutely. And, um, as a coach, I think, um, like you said, you know, the coach does not get attached to the topic. And I guess that's what makes it possible to hold the agenda with such, um, gentleness and yet firmness. And sometimes in other conversations where we are attached and we are in a conversation where the topic keeps changing, it can be hard to come back to the original topic, the topic that we started off with. I would still encourage folks to try it out. If you ever hear the agenda changing in the middle of a conversation, pause, take a moment and maybe make some new agreements of whether you wanna go to the new agenda or the original agenda. Where do you wanna go?
Lisa | 01:01:13
Yes. I love that. Vela. I think, and I think what you're describing there really highlights the difference between a coaching conversation and just a regular conversation, <laugh>.
Vimla | 01:01:23
Yes. Yes.
Lisa | 01:01:25
So at the end of the day, there was this overarching theme that came out of this session, and our client was really struggling with what we would call judgment. You know, how we feel about a certain situation or a certain thing. And one thing to note about what this judgment was creating for the client was really relevant to what she wanted more of. Right. So yes, there's this idea that judgment, especially judgment infl inflicted at one's self, which is so very common
Vimla | 01:02:04
Yes.
Lisa | 01:02:05
Causes energy leaks. So like you use energy actually to be in resistance to what is, which is another way of judging, right. <laugh>. Yes. And the whole thing was why I, I want more energy, but I'm spending it <laugh> in this resistance with this judgment. That's quite the paradox.
Vimla | 01:02:27
Yes. And it was such a beautiful insight. And, um, I think it's very, very applicable in my personal life as well. Whenever there is judgment, there is a lot of energy leak, energy drain, more exhaustion than necessary <laugh>. So it really is important to work with the judgment or the practice of non-judgment. And I loved that our client, Jan, was so aware of this and, uh, in the session, she already walked away with a plan to work with this.
Lisa | 01:03:09
Yes. And if you listen carefully to the session, I think as she arrives with that plan, and in really till we come back to this discovery of like, oh, wait a minute, I'm hybrid Jan <laugh>. Yes. Like, I have the ability to conserve and use my energy in all these different ways. She actually left with more energy than she came with Yes. Through the discovery of what was happening. And, and sometimes when there is an explanation, just the very, like, oh, I get it. Well, this makes sense. My brain can understand what's happening here. That moment right there actually frees up a ton of energy.
Vimla | 01:03:58
Yes, absolutely.
Lisa | 01:03:59
And then the idea that I'm in control here, I actually am empowered, creates even more energy. Yes. To your point, it took the client to show up and to really bring a high degree of accessibility and curiosity and knowing of themselves to get to this point.
Vimla | 01:04:30
Yes, absolutely.
Lisa | 01:04:32
I loved working with Jam. I loved working with Jam.
Vimla | 01:04:36
Yeah. I loved listening to the session. She sounds so fun and so self-aware. Like the perfect client.
Lisa | 01:04:45
Yes. And I could see how she like, could help other people doing what she does. Yes. And be the successful business owner that she's been, it's not a surprise that she keeps building that business and growing it into new iterations and exciting new forms.
Vimla | 01:05:08
Yes. Yes. So, for our listeners, if you want to get to know Jen a little more, look at our show notes. There will be links to her website and all the other details. And, um, Lisa, anything else before we talk about what's coming next?
Lisa | 01:05:24
No, just lots of thanks to Jan for bringing the most authentic version of herself to our session. And I personally found this session really thought provoking and inspiring for my own self.
Vimla | 01:05:39
Yes. So, so very true. All right, so what's happening in the next episode?
Lisa | 01:05:44
So in our next episode, which is gonna be number 18, we have a client called Amarrah. And Amarrah is what do, what do we wanna say about this session? Actually, let me ask you, what, what do you think is, is kind of the bottom line of the next coaching session that we'll be presenting?
Vimla | 01:06:05
Oh, um, the bottom line is dreams. I wanna say <laugh> dreams, the ability to dream and the ability to make your dreams clearer and more tangible, so clearer and accessible that, um, but
Lisa | 01:06:29
It's easy to take a step. Yes,
Vimla | 01:06:31
Yes, exactly that. Yes. So that's what's, uh, happening in the next episode. Um, so until then,
Lisa | 01:06:41
We'll see you then.
Vimla | 01:06:42
See you then. Oh, by the way, we have a request for our listeners. Um, so wherever you listen to our podcast, please leave us a review.