Episode 11: Coaches in conversation *not* getting coached

This episode is all about the magic and pure value of the reflective process. Have you ever reached a goal and moved immediately from the worlds shortest 'congrats' straight to forming the next goal? Do you usually skip 'celebrating' meeting a goal?  Culturally (in America) it's fair to say we don't place a lot of value on stopping to celebrate even the smallest successes.

As a coach with your clients, or as a human having met a goal, if you don't spend much time celebrating OR looking back on the moments that got you to the finish line, this episode is for you. There is so much to be learned from taking a pause and reflecting on the moments along the way.  What is observed in this pause often becomes the key to our future successes.

In this episode we do just that with your hosts Vimla & Lisa. @JohnPoelstra.com (Episode 3) returns to help us celebrate, reflect, and get curious, but not actually coach us after meeting our goals of creating 10 episodes of our podcast Coaching Confidential just for play. 

In this episode you'll hear a "coach-like" conversation not an ACTUAL coaching session. Can you spot the difference?


THEMES:
#goals #celebrating #lookingback #postgame #appreciation #notcoaching #coach-like #laughter #relationshipcoaching #systemcoaching #mywhy #boundaries #noflyzone 

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Transcript

Vimla: Hello, and welcome to coaching confidential, a podcast hosted by ICF certified professional coaches, Lisa DiMatteo, and myself, Vimla Gulabani. In this podcast, we bring you inside a real live unscripted coaching session. And at the end of the coaching session, you hear from the client about the impact of the coaching, and you hear about the skills that the coach used. In today's episode, we are doing something different. So Lisa, let's talk about what's different today. 

Lisa: Yes, so today is episode 11 and we actually never planned on an episode 11, for those who have listened, throughout the season, you'll know that we committed to 10 episodes.

Lisa: We literally just started podcasting to have fun and to learn how to do it. That was really our only purpose as we discovered in episode three. So when we completed 10 episodes, it seemed like a really helpful thing or interesting thing for us to do would be to do an episode 11, where we look back at what it was like to do a podcast simply for play.

Vimla: Yes. So in this episode you will hear us play and you will hear us laugh. And we have John back. 

Lisa: Yeah. John was the coach who worked with us in episode three to help us figure out what it was we were actually doing. And that episode, you know, we ditched our surveys that we used to send people after they listened to the podcast.

Lisa: It was the most ridiculous thing in the world. Um, yeah. John helps us look back and really get perspective on what it is that we've done here. I think we'll call this episode coaches in cars getting coffee, because it really felt like we were just hanging out having coffee. And there were some coach like conversations, but this wasn't really a coaching session per se. It's just some coaches shooting the breeze. 

Vimla: Yes. And for those of you who listened to episode 10, we did say that in episode 11, you would hear coaches getting coached, but we just want to say that in the end, we did not really get coached. We ended up having a coach like conversation, but not really get coached. Anything else we want to add about this one? 

Lisa: Yeah. Um, so I would just say what you said for those who are listening to this podcast to really tune into some of the skills or competencies of coaching. The invitation is to listen to this and see, that there is some coach like communication, but really to notice how this is not coaching and all the reasons why it actually wasn't a coaching session and the hint is not because we laughed because we laugh and in coaching sessions all the time, but there's a lot of things that were not present in this conversation to make it a coaching session.

Lisa: And the invitation is to create that distinction if that's your jam. And if your jam is just to listen, because you want to shoot the breeze, then enjoy, enjoy listening to like the value of looking back on something. You know, it's sort of like we got to the top of the mountain. We said, okay, we're going to hike to the top of the mountain so that we can have fun while we're going up the mountain. And then when we got to the top of the mountain, not only did we enjoy the view, but we looked back down on the path we came and reflected on what it was like to do that. Only, okay except for maybe mountain climbers, this was more fun.

Lisa: Sorry. Mountain climbers. 

Vimla: Yes. So true. So very, very true. So folks enjoy and, um, uh, this episode starts with a lot of laughs. So just wanted to give that heads up. 

Lisa: Have fun. 

Vimla: Lisa, do you want to kick us off? 

Lisa: Sure. I'm really sorry because um, we have the giggles here today. A little bit of mercury retrograde preventing us all from entering in our little podcast room here together in a timely way. So here we are the co-host of Coaching Confidential, Lisa DeMateo and Vimla Gulabani. We're here with, our generous coach, Mr. John Poelstra of JohnPoelstra.com. 

John: Yeah. Welcome back from the witness protection program, the full names I love it! I threatened that if that didn't happen on this episode, I was going to call you out.

Lisa: Oh, any one of you who are, might be listening, who has heard us from the start will know that Vimla and I didn't share our full names maybe for the first seven podcasts that we did, and certainly nowhere on our podcast website, did we do that until, I think episode eight when John threatened us with poor Google response, if we didn't. 

John: It's called sneaking around. 

Lisa: You know, I think that it's interesting, right? Like it's another level of coming out with what you're doing, you know, Vimla and I sort of started this podcast, um, as you may have heard in episode three, just for us and for fun.

Lisa: And so the idea of actually claiming that by putting our full names on the podcast for anybody to Google and find felt a little bit vulnerable. 

John: So what are we here to do today why am I here, by the way, I'm, I'm, I'm responsible for all the giggles because I was, yeah, I don't know, in a good mood and just, we had some technology problems and then we were making fun of that in light of technology and terminology we used to use and here I am. So I take full responsibility. 

Lisa: The bottom line of that is when you're not in the corporate world and you make fun of corporate speak, it's so much more funny. 

John: Yes. When you're not at the expense of it. 

Lisa: So I think why we're here basically is that John, you coached Vimla and I for our podcast.

Lisa: And actually, if anybody who hasn't heard that wants to hear it. It's episode three of our first season. And, um, we agreed in that session Vimla and I, that we were doing this podcast for us and for fun and for learning and a whole bunch of other reasons, but we committed to one another that we would make 10 episodes not getting caught up in perfection or anything other than just kind of doing it for us.

Lisa: And once we hit episode 10, we would pause, reflect, and figure out what we wanted to do next. And so we thought, what better time to bring John back for coaching us and what we're up to than episode 11. So we literally have just arrived in this podcasting room together. We have not talked about what we're going to do.

Lisa: I don't think we have any idea what we're going to do, but we're just kind of deciding it now. 

Vimla: Yep. That is very true. Lisa, this is sitting with me. So I'm just going to say it, you said coming out with our full names, I did not realize that we were hiding. 

Lisa: I did. 

Vimla: That is so interesting. I did not know that for me, it was just, I guess it was not intentional.

Vimla: Not using full names was not intentional. It was just what it was. Or maybe in some ways maybe we were creating a brand. Lisa and Vimla, I don't know, but it's interesting to know. 

Lisa: It is interesting. 

Vimla: And now it's out, it's out and it's clear. 

Lisa: Yeah. 

Vimla: I'm ready now. 

John: So what were you hoping to avoid Lisa? 

Lisa: Um, unwanted criticism. Um, anybody pointing out that what I was doing, wasn't perfect, including myself. Um, and I'm not sure what else? I don't know. It's sort of like, like if I'm, what do I do to play right now? Actually, that's not great, cause I don't do a lot to play, but a garden, like, I don't broadcast like live stream my gardening on the internet.

Lisa: Right? Like if I'm playing, I'm not necessarily inviting people to watch me play. And so I guess maybe subconsciously in a way I was thinking about this as play and I didn't necessarily need to put my name on the play because then that would be the equivalent of people watching me play. I don't know. I, I definitely did not have that thought explicitly during that time, but I'm just kind of looking back on it and thinking, I wonder if that was under the surface.

John: No, we don't have to read too much into it. I was just curious. 

Vimla: Yeah. Agreed. 

Lisa: Well, I love that. Yes. The question because it sort of then begs the question, like, okay, well what changed? Or now you're like, well, I'm letting people watch me play or is it not play anymore? Is it something else? 

Vimla: Awesome. Lisa, do you want to answer your question?

Lisa: I was kinda just dropping it in there into this space? Yeah, I don't know. I think that maybe that's kind of what we're here to work out and if I'm just going to like go stream of consciousness from that, like, I don't want what we're doing to stop being play. It can be other things in addition to play, but I don't want it to not be play.

Lisa: So regardless of whether or not we come out of the session, deciding that it's more now it's more than that. I would still like it to be play. And so I guess I'm okay with people watching me play now, or maybe I was just bullied into it.

John: So what do you want this time to be and how can I most contribute to it? 

Vimla: So, John, actually, I have a question for you and. We don't have to go there if we don't want to. I am, I'm really, really curious about how you see coaching confidential. 

John: I see it as two people, they were like, can we do this? What are we doing? Is it okay? 

John: My favorite was the survey. Do you still do the survey. I hope not. 

Vimla: No, no we don't. 

John: And, um, so what I see is two lovely humans that have like deeply informed and enriched my life that are doing their thing and playing, and I don't know, maybe becoming more and more free to do that. I haven't listened to all the episodes.

John: I just kind of, I don't know. I have like 20 podcasts in my podcast feed and I just kind of serendipity I'm always just kind of in the mood for something different. So occasionally yours lands there. Um, so that's what I see. That's what I see so far. 

Lisa: You know what I saw you ask a question and another coach answered with a question.

John: I saw that. I was like, okay, I can hold on to that question.

Vimla: What is it with the coaches and not answering? They just want to ask questions. 

Lisa: I am super curious what you'd like out of today Vimla.

Vimla: Um, Lisa, I think you were right. That, uh, it is play and it is a little more than play as well. Um, I, I think honestly for me, this has been play and more than play since the beginning. I mean, it's an intentional play. Let's put it like that. I really enjoy coaching and I really want to bring coaching the coaching language out into the world as much as possible.

Vimla: It's like, um, I am not so good with metaphor. So Lisa, you may have a metaphor, but it's almost like with coaching confidential, we are enabling coaching to come out into the world. 

Vimla: Um, so what do I want from today is a. How do we continue to do that? How do we continue to intentionally play?

Lisa: May I ask a follow-up question to that? 

Vimla: Sure. 

Lisa: Yeah. Um, and keeping in mind, I'm not the coach, I'm, I'm your partner in Coaching Confidential, but I'm curious what you just said you wanted, is it still for the same sake of as where you landed in episode three, which I think was, um, this sense of people taking responsibility for themselves in this world?

Vimla: Yes. 

Lisa: Something like this. 

Vimla: Yes. It's still the same. 

Vimla: There's a little bit of a lightness to it. I don't find the metaphor for that or words for that. But, it's um, responsibility and play for the sake of having fun and being responsible. 

John: So as you've done 10 episodes, how have you both taken responsibility more?

Vimla: Okay. I can try to answer that. I think, uh, honestly when I'm coaching, my clients have a transformation or have an insight, but I do too. So all of that insight has led me to be more responsible in my life. Like when I see my clients not honoring their boundaries, it reminds me to honor my boundaries. 

John: Is there anything specific, like really, really personal that you'd want to share?

Vimla: No, the play still has boundaries,

John: So we can talk about the sandbox, but we can't talk about what's inside. 

Vimla: Yes 

Lisa: I love that you tried to go there though John. 

John: And this is a, and this is a great example of, for me anyway as a coach, where if, and you guys aren't my clients, but it, if you don't want to go there, you don't have to go there. You can say no, I, I, I don't want to go there.

John: And it's my job to not have any judgements about that to just be like, Hmm, okay. Now, if we had, if this was a coaching conversation and I kept coming up against this, I might speak to that and say, I'm noticing that when we start to talk about what's in the sandbox, that's kind of a no fly zone. That's a, we'll not go there. What's that about.

Lisa: Well, I'll go there. 

Vimla: Okay. 

Lisa: And, um, uh, so not having answered any of the other questions. I think it was an interesting direction to come at it from, 

John: You got to get a few points on the board. 

Lisa: No, no, it's not that no. You asked the question and actually suddenly this came real clear to me, so I'm almost like whatever answers I had to, those questions are gone now because here's where I'm at.

Lisa: I'm thinking about the answer to that last question that you asked a situation in your life that, what was the question? 

John: Where you are taking more responsibility? 

Lisa: Yeah. Okay, cool. So what comes to mind is I had a friend send me a message today and it was in response to a message that I had sent them about having been out of touch. Like we've been out of touch with each other and it was just touching in and saying, I'm here. And, you know, I, I kind of had been flying far from, cause I've got the sense that that you're occupied, but I just want you to know, I'm here and I got the most beautiful response. The friend kind of clued me in on what's going on in their life and that they've been kind of keeping to themselves. And you know, that person was basically saying, they're feeling at odds with the views of others, around them, many others around them at this time. And it's really hard to be in that energy with other people. It's easier for them to just kind of be on their own. So they don't have to manage the energy of others.

Lisa: And this is not a surprise to me. I kind of, I didn't know that that's why this person was not so available or why we weren't connecting, but it doesn't surprise me. And I see this as a really honest way of communicating. And when I think back about like the episodes that we've done in, in this, um, ten episode series, particularly the ones on authentic relating, I feel like even though I'm not always the client, right, I'm either the host or the coach or whatever, I'm learning so much. And so I guess in a way it comes back to Vimla's, Vimla's thing of like, you know, um, I'm changing as a, as a person and, like maybe more, the way I'm being in relationships is shifting. And so it feels really important to be able to tap a friend on the shoulder and, or at least for me, because that isn't always available in relationships right, where someone can say, Hey, I'm here, and here's what I'm sensing. And then other person can come back and say, well, here's, what's underneath what you're sensing and be really vulnerable about it. And I haven't reached back yet because I'm still absorbing the message, but I just felt so profoundly touched by this this message.

Lisa: And I felt like it was a gift to witness what this person shared. Like they let me in a little bit more than they would normally. 

John: Who are you being

Lisa: More of who I want to be, less careful, more, um, honest. 

John: So they are here being direct, following a desire or an impulse. 

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, let me say this a different way.

Lisa: I just think that there's a lot of divisiveness right now. And I think that in this present time, more than ever, I think there's people are experiencing, I am seeing it just in a few areas, some divisiveness, people have different beliefs about things in the world and it feels so tender and sensitive. And I personally have been trying to find a place of equanimity in at all, but doing so, trying to lead with love and presence and curiosity, and these are all skills and ways of being that, we have covered in these 10 episodes. So bottom line is, I guess it's another way of saying what Vimla said at the end of the day is that, you know, you're, you might be the host, you might be the coach, you might be the interviewer or whatever role it is you're playing in any given episode. It's also an opportunity to be immersed in the material and being immersed in the material, like you might just, you know, clear your cache at the end of the week and it goes away or you might save some of it to your disk, right, and call it up from time to time. That's really a really nerdy analogy or metaphor, 

Lisa: but it's good. But, but I think it speaks to so, cause I don't want to let go of my original question of like, what is John here to do and how can I help? Cause I don't feel like that got answered, but I'm going to answer it myself with what you just said, which is I'm just participating in what's happening here.

Lisa: I don't know if I'm a coach or not. I'm here to have a conversation with you. You can even coach me if you want. I'll throw that. I just made that up. 

Vimla: John. I would love to coach you, but for another time.

John: Yeah, go ahead. 

Lisa: I think beyond that though. Okay. This is actually making the point. You're here just having a conversation, jewels to having a conversation, but you're not like, so how about those Red Sox? You know, or how about the Patriots or what, like you are asking powerful questions 

John: In the context of your podcast and episode 11 and looking back, and then looking forward to what you want to do next is kind of what I'm hearing. 

Lisa: Yes. Yes. It's but you're the way you're being is a way that I think Vimla and I are and correct me if I'm, I don't want to speak for you, but it's, I think this is what I'm hearing are becoming more of and are inviting people to become more of through the podcast. And so whether it's, oh, I heard this way of saying this thing, or I heard this way of asking this question, or I heard this way of listening deeply or being present, and I'm gonna pull this one little thing and try it out. Um, what do you think Vimla? 

Vimla: Yes, absolutely.

Vimla: That's what is happening? That's how we are, I say we because you just said it, we are becoming being, and I guess a different way of, uh, John, why you are here is, uh, you are here to witness as witness as being more of ourselves. 

Lisa: Yeah. I guess. And whether that's by revealing our full names or whether that's because, you know, we're circling more in conversations that are inviting us to use more of the tools of coaching and of whatever, like Authentic Relating or whatever um, we're covering and an episode, it's kind of like a structure for doing the thing. And by doing the thing more, we're being a little differently.

John: What's been the most surprising thing or things that has come from your being and doing as a result of doing this podcast or being in this podcast.

Vimla: I guess there are many surprises at many different levels. I think for me, the surprise has been that, uh, I really enjoy editing and I really enjoy trying to get to the heart of the story in any episode. And I, I almost have a little bit of, um, think, um, at least, I don't know if you've noticed this, maybe you haven't or maybe you have, but in my mind, that is a little bit of that insistence that the story has to come across right. So sometimes if I have to edit something again and again, I continue to do that. Um, and of course there's no right there's no wrong. It's just the story that I'm hearing that I want others to hear. Yeah. It's um, I'm just realizing that it's a, it's a different way of getting, getting me heard. Yeah. I can't find any other words in this moment.

John: Can I suggest some 

Vimla: Sure. 

John: I like to think of it as speaking yourself into existence. Uh, some of this was just from my own. This is why I got so excited when you said you wanted to do a podcast and you're like, well, how do we do this? Can we do this? Because I found my voice they're doing it. Same, same path 10 years ago. Can I do this? How does this work? I don't know. Well, I, although you are much bolder, you like recorded and published. I did 20 episodes with a friend and sat on him for a year and then started publishing. But it was that process of just speaking and speaking myself into existence. It's like, oh, this is me. This is what I believe. Who cares? What people think. 

Vimla: Yes. Some of that. Absolutely. Yeah. 

Lisa: May I, um, reflect your editing prowess? 

Vimla: Yes. 

Lisa: I mean, just from the fact that remember we're kids playing in a sandbox, right? So like literally with tools that were foreign from the very beginning. And so, and since this, this is not like our main gig, right, we're just, this is literally play. I am really have been impressed by how much passion you brought to this, tool is editing tool and how much, I don't know, something that you've brought to like to the the storytelling piece. That's been great fun, actually crafting that together with you. I, that surprised me.

Lisa: I didn't, I didn't necessarily think that it would be that it would be as fun as that. It's also been fun watching you, I'll also add for myself that, you know, I spend a lot of time listening to the edits that Vimla sends, and as she, as she hinted at, like, there's multiple ones each episode usually. And so I'm like out for my walks, with my headphones on and I'm listening and, um, and I'm, I am reflecting on the fact that there's endless angles to where the episodes can go. Right. So I think that there's also a trust built between us that like whatever the first cut that Vimla takes feels like, yeah, okay, yep. That's the, that's the angle to start with, right. Like, I guess I don't even question it, it just happens. So there's something about the develop, the developing partnership that surprised me, maybe even though it shouldn't because we meet at least once a week, if not more than that, also one other thing is that like, I, I definitely want to do more and I also feel like I have an interest in having different kinds of episodes. It doesn't necessarily have to be with Coaching Confidential, but, um, you know, it could kind of be.

Lisa: Something off to the side, a spin off or something like that. But, um, I do think that even if it's just for me and two other people in the world it's worth doing and it's fun. So that just makes it worth doing for me anyways. 

Vimla: Yes. Yes, yes. And Lisa, it's been fun that, um, you know, the, sometimes like that insistence on being heard a certain way, or the episode being heard a certain way, sometimes I just can't get the right words and then I come to you and then you have the perfect words. I just come saying that this doesn't sound right. I would like it to sound like this. Feel like this. When somebody listens to this, they should take away this feeling. And, uh, you have the exact words to make that happen.

Lisa: Oh, that's cool to hear, because I feel like, I don't know if this is a surprise, but it's definitely like the least fun perspective to be in when doing Coaching Confidential, being in Coaching Confidential is when we're trying hard, you know, there's moments where we're recording the intro and outro, like we've got the story, you know, the, the, the main episode edited, we just have to sort of do the bit in the front and the back and, you know, we are recording it and just the words aren't coming out right. Or we decide that this has been like, okay, here's what we're going to say. And, but then it's like, we're reading from a script. Right. And then it's like, okay, well, I'm just going to use that as a guide, but then I'm going to ad lib. And then when I do that, it's like three days later, Lisa is still talking, you know, I don't know. Um, it's when we're trying too hard. Okay. I'll speak for myself when I'm trying too hard. It stinks. It's not fun. And it sounds terrible. 

John: It sounds like trying to play.

Vimla: Yes. But in the end we get it. We, we get the play and we get, get the story. 

Lisa: I am interested though. I have to say, I mean, I can be a bit of a feedback junkie at times, which might've been, why that survey wasn't pulled back.

John: What's a feedback junkie?

Lisa: I'm curious, who's heard this and what they think, like what they take away from it. I guess that that is the hard part is like, how is it received? Does it matter to people, to people get things from it, even if they're like, who are these two fools, you know, or, you know, like whatever the reaction is, it would be so interesting to know what it is. And I, I don't know quite how you get that. That's more of a curiosity, but it also might in a way help form kind of my desires about where we take it right at not exclusively because I have my own thoughts, but it would be interesting to know that. 

John: So there's a desire to take it where it would be even more useful.

Lisa: Yeah. Or if somebody was to say like, I really love when you guys post game, like when you come in after the coaching session and talk about what happened, that's like the most valuable thing for me. Or if they were to say, I actually don't care if you guys say anything, like, I just really love listening to a coaching session because we never get to hear those things. Right. Or I loved listening to you guys talk about Authentic Relating, like it's not coaching, but it's like, kind of on the fringes of this similar behavior thing. So like, I just love that. I would love to know. I don't need to know, but it would just be interesting to know what people enjoy. 

Vimla: Lisa, what do you enjoy the most?

Lisa: I think telling the story. Um, I'm just thinking of me on my walks and listening to the themes that are coming up in the coaching sessions and thinking, wow, that's, that's a really interesting theme to pull out. Right. And sometimes I think I really want to have a conversation around that topic. Right. Um, so yeah, telling the story, uh, of course I also love doing the coaching because, you know, that's my chosen profession at this point in my life. Um, I've been coached for a several episodes that feels a little bit more vulnerable. And if now I'm like kind of looping back to like, maybe that's why I was withholding my name because it's like, I'm not sure that I want the world to hear me being coached on all the topics that I've brought, but, but I'm over that.

Lisa: What is it that you enjoy Vimla? 

Vimla: Um, I think going back to what I said before, in response to John's question, I don't know what the question was, but I think what came up was being heard, um, I think that's what is the best part for me. And, um, when you were talking about feedback, Lisa, I was thinking, I don't care what they, what people take away or not. I want them to hear this. This is what I want them to know. I want them to get out of their own, whatever their thoughts are, their feedback is, and just listen to what I'm trying to get them to hear. Yeah, I guess that's the, that's what I, that's my stake in the ground. And I know it might be sounding so, um, I don't know the right word, but, uh, you know, somebody who likes to listen to their own voice, but that's not what it is. It's more, 

John: No, I'm not hearing that. 

Vimla: Yeah. It's more of the coaching and I'm more of, hey, this is a way to be with yourself. This is a way you can be with each other. This is a way you can explore your thoughts and situations and ways of being, 

John: I think what I've heard from both of you in, in the episodes, and also here is you are so excited about what coaching can do and how, like the impact that it can have. You just want people to have it. You're like we have this amazing, we have this amazing water it's free here. Drink some, have some it's available to as many people as want it. 

Lisa: Yeah. Yes. And I also feel like I could be pulled in this direction, that Vimla and I started to imagine at one point, and that is how to be also of service, not just to anybody who hears it and, you know, Vimla's invitation or our invitation to here's how you can be. Um, here's a way to be in the world, but to younger newer coaches, um, not necessarily younger, but, um, younger in tenure. Um, to have a resource to, I don't know, kind of geek out on coaching, you know, and I don't necessarily mean, I mean, geek out is obviously slang, but just another place where you can be immersed in the craft, maybe more like a community, 

John: Like a Guild, the Guild.

Lisa: Yeah. I just, I was in a, uh, call this afternoon for 90 minutes on coaching supervision, which is not obviously a mandated thing in our, in our profession. It's anybody who's being supervised. Is doing that optionally, but, and that's different than being mentored. The way I see supervision is like taking responsibility for yourself as a human, as a coach, sort of like the same with therapists, right. Therapists do supervision and they're working with whoever their supervisor is on who and how they're being as a human, not like, oh, that was a really good question to ask. Like, that's a, that's a really, that's a 10 for a powerful question. You know, it's sort of like what thoughts and emotions and state of mind did you bring in to this coaching session in you? You know, how were you responsible for creating the system that was created when you met with your client? Right. There's you, there's your client. And then there's that thing that you create together to me there, that's kind of one in the same as what Vimla was talking about. This invitation for anybody who listens to think about who and how they're being in the world to kind of give coaches a, a space to think about that too. So not only like, wow, that's what a really powerful question can sound like in this context or that, that was interesting that she chose to pivot this, the session this way, or a wow, that was really interesting to hear that client. This is like, oh, how, do I think about how I show up as a coach. 

John: Yeah, and I think that's so subtle.

John: That's so subtle. I think the connection I just made was yes, as a new coach, it's all about like, wow, they asked this question that I would have never thought of like, how did the coach know to ask that? And what was their formula? And, uh, oh, I gotta, I gotta write that one down. That's a really good one. I'm going to ask that one of my next session with the client versus who are you being? And I know we've said this a lot, but it's, it's simple and it's not, uh, I heard a really good explanation of this this weekend, and I don't know if I can really articulate it, but it was the idea of if you are being love or coming from a place of love in a particular situation, you were probably going to create more love, or you have the potential for creating more love.

John: If you come into a situation with resentment or hate, or frustration, especially I know for myself, if I bring some of that into a session, I could ask the most powerful question in the world, but it's not going to be received very well. It's not going to be heard. It might be heard, but is it really going to be received at the depths of asking that same question? If it came from a place of a being this of love, I would argue it's going to be completely different. And I can tell when I'm receiving the same things from other people, maybe I can't articulate why, but yeah, I think that's powerful. 

Vimla: Yeah, it is. And I'm so glad you named it, Lisa and John, for your explanation, because I think in some ways that's exactly what the, why is for coaching confidential to create that system with our audience. So when somebody listens to an episode of Coaching Confidential, I would love for them to take away. That way of being that, you know, the take ownership of how they can be based on how the coach was or how the client was or how Lisa and I were in the, you know, the comments or debrief that sense of you can choose who you want to be, how you want to be in any moment. And this is, this is a skill, and this is pointing you in one way that here's how you can choose, 

John: It's taking responsibility too. 

Vimla: Yes. 

Lisa: Yeah. 

John: This is how I am choosing to show up in this moment, or here's what I want to create in this moment. And here's how I'm going to be to have more of that 

Lisa: One's own unique expression.

Lisa: I'm feeling the urge to paint like a more explicit picture of this. Vimla and I last year did some coach training, so like taught coaching skills to folks who wanted to learn coaching. So we're teaching coach skills curriculum to them. And I, I noticed something that was happening in the learning, which I think I did when I was learning 15 years ago. And that is when I saw or heard a coaching demo. And somebody asks like the bomb diggity question, you know, the one that you could hear, you know, a fart in China after the, after the question was asked, it was like, you know, a hush comes over the room and it's like 1-800-PIN-DROP. Right. People would write that question down as if it was some magic tool, and I'm going to ask, I'm going to drop that question into my next coaching session. But it's sort of like seeing somebody come in, you know, with their own, in a room with their own unique personal style and you go out and you buy that exact same outfit, but you look like an idiot because that's their style. It's not yours. Right. And so that question might have been powerful in that moment, asked by that person in that way, at that time. But it's not a plug and play question. It's like all about getting into the present moment and letting whatever the version of that powerful question flow through you to your client. That's I think coming at it from another direction. 

John: Well, it flowed out of it flowed out of who they were being in that moment. So, I'll speak for myself at the beginning of our conversation here, I came happy, open playful. This is going to be fun. I'm going to play full out and just say, whatever comes into my head and that's pretty much what I've done. So those are the questions that emanated from my being.

Lisa: And here's the thing I'm noticing. I'm noticing. I don't know a certain, I don't know if it's like a lack of clarity. Or if it's carefulness, which both could be completely emanating from me right now. But yeah, John and I once experimented with what, if we opened up the space and allowed it anything like what would show up and I'm kind of wanting to invite that, right now.

John: Okay, let's do it. I'm up. That's the beauty of this medium, by the way that episode hasn't come out yet, Lisa, but it's totally going to come out. It's on my to-do list. It's called, I think the title is going to be no fly zone or something like that, because that was my whole thing of we're going into the no fly zone, and now I totally lost my thought. 

Lisa: Yeah, what's the no fly zone here. 

John: I'm not feeling one, but if you're feeling when I'd love to hear it, 

Lisa: I don't know that I am, but I think I'm feeling a little reckless and like, I want to go in it for the sake of creativity. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what we're doing by the way. Cause I think what I, what I am feeling it was needed was kind of. The look back right. And, uh, and a sense of appreciation and admiration for the process. And there's a part of me that is feeling and it's okay. I can let this part be. It doesn't have to actually get into a plane and crash 

John: The airplane metaphor. 

Lisa: It does not need it. I'm recognizing that it's like helmet, keys. Let's go. It's like, what next, is there anything left in the looking backwards that still wants to be looked at? Or do we want to look forward? 

Vimla: I guess I have a sense of, uh, pride in how far we have come. It's been fun and, uh, it's like learning a new play. So we have, we have learned the rules of the game while playing the game. 

Lisa: And not all of them. Just like, just, yeah, just that, but just the ones that have peaked out. I mean, I feel like there's a world of stuff we don't know. 

Vimla: Yes. 

Lisa: But I'll join you in that. I'll join you in that pride FEMLA and I'll add, there's a sense of appreciation I have deep appreciation for, uh, showing up to this. Like we just kind of are getting into this flow of doing this and, um, yeah, I guess it's like the creative flow. 

Vimla: Yeah, absolutely. In some ways it's almost like, um, you know, we pulled something out of the thin air. Not really, but it feels like that. Yeah. So I have a lot of pride and a lot of joy for that.

Lisa: And I'm not sure that there's anything else that I need to look back on. I do think that as we look forward, some further looking back reflections might pop in, but I don't know. I'm glad we did it. You know, I'm always one to get clients to sort of stop at the top of the mountain and look at the view and maybe have a glass of water before, you know, ascending the next peak. So, uh, I suppose it's really helpful to do that. And I'm also curious what the next hill is and yeah, what's, what's there. 

John: So is there a certain number of episodes that you're committing to? What w so there was initial commitment of 10, I think it was also a challenge I gave you what you accepted. So, yeah what's what's next? 

Vimla: Yeah. I like the going into the no fly zone. Let's go there Lisa, what is that? Where is that? 

John: Well, I want to answer for you. I think that Vimla should be coached. Has Vimla been coached on the podcast yet? 

Lisa: She has. 

Lisa: Okay. She has. Okay. 

Vimla: I'm curious, John, why do you say that? 

John: Well, because earlier, when I asked you to get really personal, you didn't want to, so I was like, let's no fly zone. And then I remember my, the thought that I was had that I liked, that I love about this medium. And that was part of the agreement I had with Lisa was we play full out. Yes. And if we get to the end and we say, we don't like that, or that was over the line or whatever, we just take it out. That's what I love about this medium it's not live. And what was so fascinating about that episode we did was. We got to the end and it was uncomfortable. And it was like, wow, I can't believe I just shared that. And then we're like, well, is there anything we need to take out? And I was like, no, I mean, that was from I'm speaking for myself. I shared some personal things that were a little uncomfortable, but then I thought, well, I kind of, there's nothing like nothing's, nobody's going to get hurt from this. That's not going to hurt me. There was, there's nothing to lose. So I'm publishing it. Yeah. So that was the learning, I guess, too, from that as well, you make up a story that it's going to be really vulnerable and really no fly, and oh my gosh, I'm sure we're going to have to delete something and then you actually do it and there's. Maybe that's how this has been for you, both like, oh, I don't know. Can we do this? Can we publish it and then do it? And it's like, oh yeah, we can totally do this. 

Vimla: Yeah. Some of that. Yes. So, John, you just gave me an idea of the no fly zone. Lisa let's do this live. 

Lisa: What do you mean? 

Lisa: Just live coaching, like Facebook live or some live or something.

Lisa: Oh, 

John: Unedited unscripted. 

Vimla: Unedited. It's, coaching is usually unscripted. 

Lisa: Vimla I think that's a freaking brilliant idea. And I think it plays interestingly with where I was going to go with the no fly zone. And that is kind of putting, dropping this out there more. Cause like when I'm floating around and these various online coaching communities, inevitably, at some point there's somebody who's like, is there any podcasts where people are offering where there's, we are, can hear real life coaching and every now and then I've dropped our podcast in there. But like, I'd really like to find more opportunities to get this before people, for the sake of all the things that we've said before, and maybe even recruiting some guests, some new guests. 

Vimla: Yeah, absolutely. My mind is going into all the logistics, but we don't need to go there yet. 

Lisa: You know, I've never done that, social media live before or a LinkedIn live or any, like I've never gone, done anything like that.

John: Yeah. I'm checking in with my body and my chest is like, I, oh yeah. 

Lisa: I mean, in reality, let's, let's just do a gut check here for a second. Like even if we were stressing, like there was one episode that I made a joke with Vimla, like I thought I was at my voice was so squeaky at the beginning of it. And, I would kind of complain about it every single time, and she's like, do you want me to edit it? Because, because the truth of the matter is I once asked her to edit me, to make me sound like someone who listens more. Cause I did a lot of talking. 

John: And you added lots of extra spaces in between the questions here. Let's have a five second pause. That was, that was brilliant pausing there. They said 

Lisa: She, that coaches such a spacious listener. I mean, we can make ourselves seem however we wanted to, right. Like that's the world that we live in, right. Anybody who's ever been out on an online date knows this to be true, but I was like, no, no, let's not change my voice because that's just, you know how it is. And that is okay. I do think that this ups that ante of like, you know, with lives either, there's no doovers, right. And it's out there and it is what it is. So it is a little risky. And at the same time, how risky is it, because honestly, how many people have listened to our podcast? How many people are going to be on the other end of the live? 

Vimla: Yeah 

John: What also occurs to me too, there could also be, hey, we're going to push record and we're not going to edit, there will be no edits. So pretend that it's alive. 

Vimla: Yeah. 

John: Or not. 

Vimla: So, so I think what what's coming up for me is that when we do the live, if, and when we do the live, we won't make it into a podcast. It, it is live. It's done. And it's gone. There will be no record of it. If you want to come, you come, if you don't want to come, you don't come.

John: But it does get saved. Well, I'm thinking of Facebook live. Like if you do a Facebook live, doesn't it stay out there forever and everyone can go push the button and listen again, listen later. 

Vimla: Oh, I don't know, I'm thinking maybe there's a setting which disables that 

John: or you could do it live and deleted. I don't know.

Vimla: Yeah. Something, but that's what I'm thinking. Like a live would not make it to a podcast because it's once and done. 

John: So live is a possibility. What are a couple of other things you see for the future? 

Lisa: I liked how we broke, broke with the format to do this, um, three episode series on authentic relating it. Quite frankly, I think we thought it was going to be one episode, but there was so much in the conversation that we decided to break it down into three parts, again, sort of the creative licensure that I really enjoy, um, with Vimla. But I do think that like coming back to the format and then breaking with format, like I could see us, having another kind of conversation that's about coaching or something that's related to coaching as, as we move forward. 

Vimla: Yes. 

Lisa: But to continue to come back to the real life coaching session as the homebase. 

Vimla: Yeah. I have another idea. So we could invite other coaches to share a recording of their coaching and then, uh, Lisa, you and I could, uh, unpack it.

John: Oh, like a supervision. You could do a supervision of a 

Vimla: Yeah, in supervision. You know, the supervisor could tell you that, hey, you could have also used this or that. But instead of that, we just highlight what was brilliantly used, like underscore the skills that are present.

John: I have another question where it goes in a completely different direction. Do you want it, or do you want to stay here? 

Lisa: Bring it. 

John: So based on everything you've learned through this process of starting with, oh, this inkling of, we want to do a podcast to, how do we do it, infact, I still remember where I was walking Vimla, when you called me with, what do I do? How do I do this? And I was like, oh, here's how you do it. What advice do you have for someone that listens to you and is like, oh, I'd want to do something like that, but it's completely impossible. I'd never be able to have a podcast. What would you tell them? 

Lisa: Get coaching.

Vimla: Yes. I was going to say the same and if possible, you know, uh, go meet John. 

John: What do you, when you say get coaching, what does it get coached on creating a podcast or, what do you mean? 

Lisa: Get coached on your belief. 

John: Oh 

Lisa: That, that you can't. Yeah. Like obviously you have a belief that's thats potentially between you and doing the thing. So check out some other perspectives or just decide that yeah, you're right, and don't do it. 

Vimla: Yeah. Or, you know, you know, John, what you did was, uh, encouragement, get some encouragement, get a mentor that goes a long way. 

John: So someone that's already done it or someone that's been there a little bit that can ask questions, point you in certain directions.

Vimla: Yes. 

John: I mean, I guess in a certain. In some ways, this is not coaching because like when you asked me John, what software should I use? I didn't say, Vimla where would you find answers like that in your life? Instead, I was like, well, here's two or three choices. Here's the pros and cons of each. That was advice. But my belief was in that moment, that advice served you more than saying, Vimla, how would your, you know, your inner leader know the best podcast production software to select.

Vimla: Yeah. So mentoring, but also John, what you. What you did when you gave me some of those suggestions was never, once you said that it's complicated and you cannot do it. 

John: And this is so impossible. I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't think you should go there. 

Vimla: Yeah. You never said that. And you never even said that, uh, it's very complex or, um, you need certain skills before you even think about it. None of that. You, you did not point me to obstacles at all. You pointed me to solutions. Uh, yes, there were obstacles and I think you knew the obstacles, but you still never mentioned them. 

John: Really? I'm surprised. Okay. That's good.

John: I think I remember thinking this is a big, complicated undertaking, but I know how persistent you are. So I'm just like, well, here are the tools and here's how to get started. And I think my thought was, well, she'll either take the steps and do it and I'll help her take the next steps or she'll get to a certain point and, like I don't want it. Yeah. 

Vimla: Yes. 

John: True to form, you're still persisting. 

Vimla: Yes, but I love that because if, if you had even hinted at this is very complex, I would not have taken that step. But, uh, so you, you need people like what I'm trying to get to is that it's encouragement. 

Lisa: Yeah. And I actually have to go, but, uh, I do want to say like, uh, effectively, okay, we're not a couple of knuckleheads, but we had no clue. And so if we could do it and you know, we're doing it at a very pedestrian level, but we're doing it like then you can too, you'd really have to. Mr. Magoo. 

John: Or not want to do it 

Lisa: or not want to do it. Yes. Or be setting yourself up to not succeed.

Vimla: Yes. 

Vimla: Anyway, I just want to say John. Thank you. 

John: You're welcome. 

Vimla: Yes. 

Lisa: Yeah.

Lisa: Lisa, that was a fun conversation and I hope the audience thought it so so honestly I had a lot of fun in that conversation 

Lisa: I did too. I did too. For sure. I feel like there was lots of space to just be ourselves. 

Vimla: Yes, absolutely. 

Lisa: Which doesn't always happen when we're coaching because we're managing right. We're we're self managing and coaching. 

Vimla: Yes. Yes. So, so very true. Yep. All right. So for the sake of our listeners, shall we outline how it was. Uh, coach-like conversation, but not a coaching conversation. 

Lisa: Yeah. I think there were a lot of things that are coach associated competencies or skills that were part of this conversation, but they weren't held in a coaching container. Um, so yeah, let's draw that distinction and I'll start with the first one that I think is inherently part of who we be as coaches, even when we're not coaching. And then a lot of humans who are coaches, even our, which is curious, there was a lot of curiosity in this conversation. 

Vimla: Yes. There was a lot of curiosity, so, so very true. And there were a lot of powerful questions from John and some from us to each other and to the space. 

Lisa: Yeah, John's really, really good at that. And, um, when I think back to episode three, you know, he had some humdingers and questions that really had us stop. Like that we didn't have a quick, easy answer for, right. That made us go inside, reflect and come back out with something. 

Vimla: Yes. Yes. So, very true. What else was there that was coach? Like 

Lisa: One thing is John did try to set the space for us. He did try to get us into a designed Alliance to create that coaching container at the beginning of the session, but we weren't having it for whatever reason. And, um, so the lack of that actually made, made it not a coaching session, but he did a thing in response to the way that we were like, we were kind of, bobbing and weaving away from that the Designed Alliance and he just bobbed and weaved with us. He stayed with wherever we were. And that is a coach like competency to stay with your clients.

Vimla: Yes, absolutely. Yes. And I forget, what else did we say? We were going to say, 

Lisa: I don't remember either, but I bet people who are listening probably know. So the invitation is to reach out and to let us know what we forgot. I guess we're being so present right now that we actually can't recall it. Maybe we'll just come back to highlighting what was missing to make it an actual, proper coaching conversation.

Lisa: One was already mentioned the designed Alliance. We did not, design an agreement with John that that's what this was and how we wanted to be, or how we wanted him to be, or what would make the space optimal to have that kind of conversation. We didn't make any agreements at all about what the container was for or how we wanted to be in it. And also what we wanted to take from it. 

Vimla: Yes, yes. That is so very true. And that is exactly why it was not a coaching session, but a coach like conversation. And we say coach, like, because we did go deeper, we were not just shooting the breeze. We went deeper with some powerful questions and we did get something out of it, which was a celebration of what we have been up to looking back. We did spend a little bit of time on looking ahead, but not a lot. But we have been talking about what's next for us. And we have been working on a few things. Uh, Lisa, do you want to share what we have been working on? 

Lisa: Sure. Yeah. Some of them are actually inspired by this particular conversation. One is the value of looking back and reviewing your path. So, you know, a lot of people come to coaching because they have a goal and they're having, um, some challenges maybe to articulate that goal or to get clear on their pathway there or moving the roadblocks, or maybe they're not even having a problem, they just have a goal. And they look for the support of a coach to reach that goal. The thing is, you know, when we reach a goal sometimes, and I think I held this energy in this conversation, sometimes we're like, all right, done onto the next goal. And, um, you know, there's a lot to be learned from. Looking back and not only celebrating, but looking back at how you got there, the milestones and the not so fun moments and sort of this reminiscing in a way of the experience. So we actually have an episode coming up on the value of that. And, uh, some of the themes involved there are career, career goals. And, um, what supports you in reaching those goals? And there's one other theme. I'll introduce it, maybe Vimla, you can say something about it. Um, you know, we made a huge distinction in this episode around what's a coaching conversation and what's not a coaching conversation.

Lisa: And so we're planning an episode where we will talk with some other coaches about what it's like to be a coach and how you, be with people in your life who might be thinking that in a regular, everyday conversation that you're having, that you are coaching them? 

Vimla: Yes. Yes. Our coach behaviors that coach beings bleed into the rest of our life. And what's an impact of that. 

Lisa: So, um, those are two things that we're working on and there's a whole lot more to come because as you heard in this episode, we've been having fun and we want to keep it going. So we hope that you'll come with us. 

Vimla: Yes, absolutely. And as usual folks know where to read. Please check out the show notes was at our website, send us an email, send us a note. However you want to get in touch with us. We would love to get in touch with you. 

Lisa: Yes. Especially if you would like to be a guest on our podcast, whether that's as a coaching client or you have some other really burning idea that you'd like to present us with. We'd love to hear it. So once again, DubDubDub your vital self.com forward slash coaching confidential.

Lisa: And you can hear the coaching confidential podcast anywhere that you hear your podcasts. Yes. 

Vimla: Until next time.