Vimla | 00:01
Hello and welcome to Coaching Confidential, a podcast hosted by ICF-certified professional coaches Lisa DiMatteo, and myself, Vimla Gulabani. In this podcast, we bring you inside a real live unscripted coaching session, and at the end of the coaching session you hear from the client about the impact of the coaching and you hear about the skills that the coach used. In this episode, we are taking a break from our usual format and we are continuing our series of conversations with coaches. Lisa, do you want to share the context of that?
Lisa | 00:37
Sure, yeah. So in this episode, we are on the third conversation with coaches about how becoming a coach has shown up in their relationships or what impact becoming a coach has had on their relationships. And this is the third in this series of conversations with coaches. In this particular episode, we speak with Howard Stanton of Vanguard Coaching, and we are talking with Howard about how his relationships were impacted by becoming a coach. And what it's like to be a professional coach who's married to a professional coach. And what's interesting about what we're going to hear from Howard is that he and his wife Erin, traveled through coaching school at about the same time, one about a year ahead of the other, and Howard is going to share with us how he and his wife went through various phases in their relationship as they move through their coaching experience and as they built a coaching business together. It's a really interesting conversation that dances around these elements of being confused, <laugh>, and then really aligning around co-creating their relationship and who they want to be moving forward. It's a really awesome journey to hear about.
Vimla | 03:14
Fascinating. I'm looking forward to hearing this whole conversation.
Lisa | 03:21
Vimla and I were just starting season two of our podcast and somewhere in our process, we started thinking about sort of a look back. The plan was we were going to be coached about, hey, what was it like to do 10 episodes? Like having no clue about doing a podcast. And we weren't really organized about it. We just got on the call and John was trying to coach us, but it soon became clear that we didn't want to be coached. And so we just had a conversation,
Howard | 03:52
<laugh> <laugh>,
Lisa | 03:53
And there was so much laughter and it was a coach-like conversation because, because you hear he's asking powerful questions, but we didn't have a design alliance. There was a lot of coach-like behavior, but it wasn't a coaching conversation for reasons that we share in the podcast. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so we thought like, Oh yeah, this happens all the time. Like, whereas coaches like either we're naturally curious or because we use maybe language with people that they're not familiar with, it might, especially in the CTI world, because there's a certain, you know, things like dancing in the moment. Like people will think that we're coaching. And so we thought, Wow, what a great thing to talk about. I personally have had people in my life and on occasion intimate partners who in moments of difficulty have said, Don't try to coach me <laugh>. And like I, I'm not coaching you. Like I can't coach you without permission. Like it's a coactive thing. It's, we do it together. So anyways, that was all the inspiration. And so I thought it was fascinating when you wrote saying, Well, I'm a coach, married to a coach, and I think I have a pretty unique perspective. And so I'm wondering if there's a place you wanna start to share up about that.
Howard | 05:22
Mm. When you asked that question, I, I kind of go back to the beginning of when we were first training to be coaches, because this has had an evolution in our relationship and how it shows up and how we respond to it now versus at the beginning. And at the beginning it was really like, because we were like, you know, learning all this new stuff and learning new ways to be as people and as coaches, right? So there were a lot of blurry lines and there was a lot of conflict at the beginning because there was a lot of, um, almost like, Oh, I'll just speak for myself, like righteousness around it. Well this is who I am becoming, so you need to be able to be with this because I'm not coaching you, it's just who I am or I am becoming, right? So over time we learned and now we have shortcuts to it, but we, we needed to be really explicit. Like I would say things like, I know this is going to sound like I'm coaching you and I want you to know that that's not my intention. This is just coming from a genuine place of who I am and being curious because I'm a much more curious person Now, is it okay if I ask you this question? Right? So there's this big like long lead ins, but they were necessary and they were actually really served our, our relationship.
Lisa | 06:57
Yeah. Yeah. That's so fascinating, so fascinating. Howard, I'm curious if you have an example of what it was like back in the beginning and kind of how you experienced your partner responds to that or react, whatever it was.
Howard | 07:18
Yeah, like, like an example. This was the flavor of it. I don't know if I can remember exact specific words, but first of all, the, the thing that we know about our relationship and that we've known even before we became coaches is that we're committed to each other's growth. Like that's a big core, it's like the stake of our relationship mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So now we have all these new tools, right? So we can, so, so something would come up and I'd be listening to Erin and she'd be talking about like some struggle she's having and I'd say, Well, what do you really want? Right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And she would just get this like sense that like, well now I'm talking to someone different that's showing up here. That's like, what are you doing? Like, almost like a technique would show up in the question.
Lisa | 08:05
That was how she would experience that question.
Howard | 08:07
That's how she would experience it. Yeah.
Lisa | 08:10
Okay.
Howard | 08:10
Yeah. And I would experience it too, so I can flip it around and um, you know, she might say something to me like, I think you're just not stepping up. Like you're up against a blocker and you're in an old familiar comfort zone.
Lisa | 08:26
Mm.
Howard | 08:27
And and I'd be like, But what is this? Like I'm just wanting support here. I'm wanting to be heard and now I'm being challenged. Right. And like, this is operating in a different kind of space that it used to mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think like as I think about this out loud, it would stir up like defensiveness. Yeah. Because there wasn't the design up front, there wasn't the conversation happening there permission to be, even if it wasn't, we were, we weren't being intentional about coaching each other. There was still permission to need, needed to be coach-like in the early days. Yeah. And without that permission then we could both kind of get defensive and trust would be like violated in a way and then it would get really funky.
Lisa | 09:18
Yeah. So I'm, I'm almost hearing two things. Yeah. One is that sometimes we have an idea of what we want from other and what they're offering isn't that <laugh>, right? So for example, I just wanna be validated or I just want you to hear me, or I, I just want you to see me <laugh>. So there's always that instance in a relationship where sometimes what we're being offered isn't the thing that we want or need. And then there's this other thing of, well, what we're getting actually triggers this alert of, wait a minute, this isn't just Howard and Aaron in committed relationship conversation as to pedestrian humans on the planet. <laugh>, this is Howard responding as his coach, or this is Erin responding in her coach. Is that it?
Howard | 10:21
Yep. And that's part of the complexity. And then there were, there was more complexity because we're committed to each other's growth. Right. And we're also committed to our own growth. And so part of that conversation could be, or kind of my internal dialogue to be completely transparent was, Wait a minute, I want you to collude with me and that I know that doesn't serve me. Right. And so, so the dance that we had, that we and we continue to make is in, well, I'll keep it back there in the early days, was how do we use these new tools to help each others in ways that we know we want to be helped?
Lisa | 11:02
Yeah.
Howard | 11:03
Right. Like for instance, if I was your coach, if I was your coach, I wouldn't collude with you. I look at that as a coach. Like am I just like feeding into some kind of like self-limiting belief that this client wants me to feed into to make them feel better? Right. I'm gonna look at that as coach and I'm gonna call that out, or I'm gonna manage that somehow cuz I'm, I'm being paid to grow the person.
Lisa | 11:30
Yes. Yes. Well, to help them get to the, the big A that they're holding. Yes. And just to be clear, I was a little confused when you said collude, but I think just for listeners like colluding meaning like you recognize something that's happening as either not moving closer to the goal or looking away from the goal somehow. Like being in denial or something.
Howard | 11:52
Yeah. Or feel sorry for me or feed into a limiting belief and just make it even more, you know, just, just feed into that because that's where I am right now and that's where I'm comfortable.
Lisa | 12:03
So in the context of being committed to each other's growth, like anti-growth behavior.
Howard | 12:08
Yes.
Lisa | 12:08
Okay.
Howard | 12:09
So I don't know if I just confuse things even more, but there was, there was always that layer and like she has that version of that.
Lisa | 12:16
So being committed to each other's growth as partners, how do you determine what that role is? Because imagine that you weren't both coaches and there was a time where that was true. Yes. What did that committing to each other look like? And so like, I guess, does that include coach-like behavior?
Howard | 12:36
Yes, it does now. Okay. That's where the evolution is, right? Because we had to go through these long statements at first all the time, asking permission, asking permission, asking permission. Now it's just more naturally organically flows like where we're just much more coach-like with each other. It doesn't create that threat response. Now sometimes it can, sometimes it still can lead to conflict. And I think that's been a big journey in our relationship is being able to stay in conflict and sometimes being coach-like can lead there and, and sometimes it needs some cleaning up. It can still be messy. Yet we're much more accepting of this is just who we are now. There's not as much ego involved. I think now as maybe there was earlier, you know, I'll just speak for myself where I'm just trying this on like, don't experiment with me <laugh>. Like don't practice with your clients <laugh>.
Lisa | 13:35
Yeah. Yeah. So what you're really speaking to feels like you have kind of a more solid designed alliance Yeah. As part of your relationship as partners. And it includes coaching one another kind of in this way on the fly sort of way.
Howard | 13:53
Yeah. It, it includes being coach-like cuz our relationship actually went through a phase where we actually coached each other. We went through that phase. Now that took a lot like could you coach me on this? Or would you, I'm just thinking about this now. We had this kind of middle part of this arc where that was going on quite a bit.
Lisa | 14:15
What was that
Howard | 14:16
Like? That was cool. That was good because it was so well designed and there was full permission and um, that was always initiated by whoever wanted to be coached. So it wasn't like I would say to or Ooh, this sounds something like maybe I should coach you on. Right. It never worked that way. It was like, Hey, can you coach me on this? So whoever wanted the coaching was reaching out and we kinda learned that
Lisa | 14:43
Yeah. Nobody was selling.
Howard | 14:44
Nobody was selling. Right. Yeah. And it was like, okay. Especially for me because, and I, I think for her too, it was like, cuz we're pretty good clients <laugh>, so then it was like kind of fed, it had this like generative effect. Like I got as a relatively new coach, a really good client to work with for permission. And then if I was on the other side, I got good coaching for free. Yeah. Right. So yeah. <laugh>, right? <laugh>. So <laugh>. But we don't do that anymore. Yeah. It's interesting. I'm just noticing that like it's just all of that has just evolved into, now it's just kind of who we are with each other. Um, and we, and we don't, we, we'll even say like, I think there was a boundary around that. Like maybe you should go get some coaching on that
Lisa | 15:30
Mm-hmm.
Howard | 15:30
<affirmative> rather than being so willing to just jump in and like, oh I wanna coach you around that. Right. So something's evolved around the formality of it doesn't happen anymore.
Lisa | 15:41
Yeah. It all sounds like a very organic arc. And over how long a period of time Howard?
Howard | 15:49
Yeah, so this is probably, um, seven or eight years now.
Lisa | 15:55
Okay. And were you traveling through your coach training at the same pace or same time?
Howard | 16:01
She was a, a year ahead. Okay. So pretty close.
Lisa | 16:05
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa | 16:07
Hmm. I'm almost curious to hear what her experience of the same topic would be. <laugh>. Yep. And I love, I love how you had these different phases. Like it sounds at first like it was a bit clunky bordering on prickly cuz there was, it was different, right? There was, it was the dance that you were in and the relationship shifted and so maybe you stepped on one another's toes trying to move from the chacha to the tango <laugh> and then you actually moved into a phase where you could actually really support one another in a very value oriented sort of way and practice, you know, what it's like to coach somebody with whom you have a stake in the ground.
Howard | 16:53
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa | 16:55
And then that you turn into sort of this more boundary place, but also one where being coach-like with one another, not necessarily that you're entering into session together like a proper coaching session that your relationship container actually has an alliance where you get to be coach-like with one another.
Howard | 17:20
Yes. And that's the part that the alliance part is the part that's still very alive and present to this day no matter what. If it's, if it's one of us supporting the other or if we're we're just in a relationship conversation, it's like, how do we want to be in this conversation? Or I foresee this, this and this. Let's design around that. When this comes up, what's our intention? Right. And when like when we work with our clients, our couples clients, that's a big piece of it Right. Because we don't often have the conversation about the conversation. Yeah. That's like so important to relationships.
Lisa | 18:01
I absolutely agree with you for a million reasons. And actually that sounds like a really awesome episode, <laugh>. It does. Or a to topic for an episode. Um, maybe we'll have to co-create on that. Yeah. So yeah. Um, I am interested in two, two more things. Yeah. One is about what you and Aaron do Yeah. That you wanna share with the world. And then the other is if there's anything else that you wanna share on this topic that I haven't asked you.
Howard | 18:33
Yeah. That question sparked this. Like, outside of our relationship, just my whole exploration of this topic being more coach-like, I find myself really self-managing a lot and actually being more in my being than in my doing. So more deep listening and being in connection with my friends and family and seeing them and less like, well what's your vision for that? Or what do you really want? Or what I'm noticing is right. Like my, I don't even go there much anymore. Yeah. It yet it still isn't still being coach like is very much a part of me. So I like to make that distinction cuz I don't want do my anyone <laugh>. Like I I don't want do that. I, I just wanna be, And that helps to impact the relationship too. It's just as important.
Lisa | 19:33
Yeah, for sure. And I think this is a thing that in our culture, the whole topic of be versus do is so huge. The do is sort of valued highly. Yes. You know, what we're doing versus how we're being And um, that even links back to the having a conversation about the conversation <laugh>. Yes. So, but what I heard you say is that you're steering clear of the doing and you're focusing more on the being and you mentioned deep active listening. And if we could just pull out what other being is there, what would you say?
Howard | 20:12
Yes. A curiosity mm-hmm. <affirmative> curiosity. So like with friends and family, we can have agendas and then we can get triggered by our own agendas that we have for other people Right. When they're not showing up the way we expect them to show up, which is just the whole boatload of judgment that we're bringing to the relationship. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So my growth in my relationship to people I care about is just to be a lot more curious.
Lisa | 20:38
How do you be curious and not do curious? Can we, can we just break that distinction out?
Howard | 20:44
No, that's, that's a great question. Um, I may actually, like in the curious route, Well first of all, I notice it. First of all, I notice my own bodily responses to the person that I'm speaking to. And I I'm very familiar with that now. So that's how I know if I'm triggered. So it's like a almost a microsecond. I'm triggered. And then what comes in now after practices, just let it go and just be curious, wonder bring wonder to this conversation. Right. So I may ask more questions, I will ask more questions than I give advice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> in my relationships mm-hmm. <affirmative> is that doing coaching, you know, it, it's part of what coaches do. I still don't feel like I'm coaching them. I'm just being curious. And so a question may naturally just come up and that's okay. That's just being a human being to me.
Lisa | 21:35
Yeah. I get it. I heard something in there though. I wanna reflect back to you. I think I heard you say that you are being more embodied in you, you're being more present to yourself Absolutely. To understand like, what's going on inside you, How are you being, you're focused on your being and I almost wanna say
Howard | 22:00
Yes.
Lisa | 22:00
You're being more present.
Howard | 22:02
Oh, a hundred percent.
Lisa | 22:04
Yeah. Yeah. And I see that as the being, I'm being more present wherever I am and with whom I am with, I'm also being present with me and like what my internal weather is. Yep. And that's the being and I'm still curious like what the being, I guess you can be curious and not ask questions mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? You can hold an open stand, like there's a mil Okay. Rat hole, but <laugh>, um, this is, this is just more fodder for another conversation. Yep. Anything else?
Howard | 22:43
Um, I think I just, I just wanted to touch on that, that that part outside of my, my relationship. Yeah. Um, and a part that, you know, you just touched on this being more present. Yeah. That's part of being more coach-like and the whole internal, you know, I put the coach-like word self-management. Right. Self-management serves us in our work with our clients and it also serves me in my building closer relationships with other people. Cause it's part of my trans transition from being judgemental to being curious and present. Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa | 23:18
Yeah. Beautiful. I'm glad you said that. You know, it really does point to the fact that that might have happened even if you hadn't become a coach and embodied coach like qualities
Howard | 23:29
Could have. Yeah.
Lisa | 23:30
And you have a whole other toolbox. And and Vim and I have mentioned this in a, in another episode about how doing this and, and being a, being a coach and being with this podcast, we've noticed how we've changed as individuals because our clients reflect opportunities to us for how we wanna choose to be.
Howard | 23:51
Absolutely.
Lisa | 23:53
So thank you for adding that in. Let's end with maybe just a little bit about what, what you offer for coaching.
Howard | 24:00
Yeah. So my wife Erin and I are a couple that coaches couples and, um, I love the work on many levels. I love coaching couples and I especially love doing it with Aaron. I do a little bit on my own and it's not the same. We've been doing this for a couple of years and we're still learning about the ways that we impact couples in what they're looking for in their relationship. The way that our relationship impacts them matters. So it's a coaching relationship and it's our relationship in relationship to their relationship. And there's a lot that happens there that wouldn't necessarily happen if it was only one of us. Yeah.
Lisa | 24:47
Sounds like a catalyzer.
Howard | 24:49
It's a catalyzer. It brings a sense of balance to the coaching too. I think that sometimes might not be there in a one on two type of relationship on top of the fact that we just bring different perspectives. We're different people. We have different ways of seeing things and we offer that all the time. So there's, there's more on the coaching side to create from, because there's two of us. Yeah. It's really powerful. The clients we work with are generally folks that are like, they know they wanna be in the relationship. Like nobody's dragging somebody else in. They're wanting to create like more fulfillment, more excitement, more purpose. We work a lot with that. Like, we're not just two people living in a house together, maybe with kids, maybe without kids. We're about something as a couple. And maybe we don't know what that is, but we know we want that. So we wanna be intentional about creating our relationship together. Yeah. We help to, you know, expand awareness around what that is and then take action towards creating that.
Lisa | 25:53
Yeah. This sounds fascinating, Howard and I, I imagine that the world could use a lot of this. How would folks get in touch with you and Erin about this kind of coaching? Yeah.
Howard | 26:03
Well we, we have a website. It's vanguard coaches.com.
Lisa | 26:08
Vanguard?
Howard | 26:09
Yep. Vanguard, V A N G U A R d coaches.com. I can be reached@howardvanguardcoaches.com and, um, that's the best way to get in touch with us.
Lisa | 26:20
Awesome.
Howard | 26:20
Just to have a conversation to learn more. We, we like to be in those conversations with people too.
Lisa | 26:25
Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing that and all of your thoughts on what it's like as a coach in intimate, committed relationship with another coach and kind of what that arc has looked like for you. It's really interesting. I appreciate it.
Howard | 26:39
Yeah. I actually appreciate the opportunity as well because I learned a lot just in, in being, being intentional about this for half an hour. Yeah. It's been really cool.
Lisa | 26:50
Beautiful. Awesome.
Vimla | 26:56
Lisa, that was an insightful conversation. I feel like we have, um, we have a blueprint or, um, a frame of what happens in our relationship and we become coaches and maybe also an idea or an insight into a path to adopt to sort of navigate those relationships in my personal life as well. What do you think? Would you agree?
Lisa | 27:23
Yeah, I think so. I think we should name that arc or that blueprint, but I actually would go so far as to say it feels like it applies also like this generic blueprint for change. Yes. So just to name it, like, I feel sometimes when there is a change, of course we're talking about this in the scope of relationship mm-hmm. <affirmative> and even more specifically in the scope of relationship that involves one or more people becoming a coach, there is confusion, like how we used to be is somehow different. And so that's kind of confusing <laugh>.
Vimla | 28:05
Yes, yes. I, I loved how Howard's examples of that confusion in the beginning when he talks about the beginning of when he and Aaron started going through the coach training.
Lisa | 28:15
Yeah. There was one line where he, I think he described it as like a little righteousness.
Vimla | 28:22
Yes.
Lisa | 28:23
When he said, well, and in the attempt to get clear about what was changing, it was like this, Well, I'm changing <laugh>, so you or this relationship needs to gather around that change because I'm different. And that's the centering point.
Vimla | 28:44
Yes, yes. I'm so glad you brought that up. In fact, I have noticed this in other coaches as well. I mentor coaches and one of my mentees, somebody who's training to be a coach, said, you know, they declared to the partner that, Hey, look, this is changing me. My perspective is changing and you need to get on board. You need to change too. It happens. It's quite common, I think.
Lisa | 29:14
Yeah. I think acknowledging that there's confusion in the space can be quite empowering for the relationship though. And, and I'm thinking back to our other two conversations with Edwin and with Terry, and each one of them had their own way of acknowledging the change.
Vimla | 29:32
Yes.
Lisa | 29:32
If I remember correctly, I think Edwin just mentioned something about just showing them how you're different or maybe even, you know, I think you shared like kind of this one liner saying, Hey, you know, I've been doing some deep transformational work <laugh> Yes. As part of my coach training, and so I'm likely to show up a little bit different.
Vimla | 29:53
Yes. I remember your metaphor from that conversation. Like, I have a new iOS. Yes,
Lisa | 29:59
That's right. <laugh>. That's right. Yes. Yeah, yeah,
Vimla | 30:03
Yeah. So what we are pointing to is at the beginning when one person, or in I guess this case both are going through coach training, there is bound to be this moment of, Hey, I have a new iOS.
Lisa | 30:18
Yeah. Yeah. And Howard then goes on to speak about how perhaps being a little bit more invitational, he doesn't use these words, but being a little bit more collaborative about that shift. Because in the case of Howard and his partner Aaron, it's not just Howard and Aaron, but there's the relationship, the marriage that they're keeping. And so how are the ways that each one of them is changing, impacting the relationship and after the confusion of like, whoa, something's different, what's going on? And, and maybe in Howard's case a little bit of, as he called it, righteousness, There was this other phase that he speaks about. I think he refers to it as the conversation about the conversation.
Vimla | 31:06
Yes. Uh, intentionally talking about what they want as an outcome, designing their conversations. Yes.
Lisa | 31:14
Yeah. And putting this into real life relationship context. I felt like Howard was speaking about like acknowledging that we used to be away with one another. We used to be this way with one another. Maybe we would support each other or allow for certain kinds of relating no matter what the case was. But now the relating was changing because some of the coach-like communication or coach behaviors were bleeding into their relationship. Right. So this still straddles the confusion a little bit. Like, who are we to each other right now? Wait, are you being my husband? Are you being my wife or are you being my coach?
Vimla | 32:04
<laugh> Yes. Or just a coach like husband or wife, <laugh>.
Lisa | 32:08
Yes, exactly. And so you can see that from the white to the black. There's all these shades of gray and like where exactly are we?
Vimla | 32:16
Yes.
Lisa | 32:17
And so having the conversation that defines where we are and actually where we wanna be on that spectrum helped, it sounded like it helped take them out of the confusion.
Vimla | 32:32
Yes.
Lisa | 32:32
And closer to this sort of co-creation or this space of making agreements about who they are now.
Vimla | 32:40
Yes.
Lisa | 32:41
What they stand for in their relationship and what that looks like in terms of behaviors.
Vimla | 32:47
Yes. So the path is confusion to a conversation about a conversation which can be called agreements and leading on to co-creation.
Lisa | 33:00
Yeah. And it's, it's this kind of intentional relationship that I, you know, I wanna point out is available to not just people who are coaches, right? Yes. Um, this, that there's no domain ownership here. It's just that the kind of skills that coaches are practicing not only in their training, but day to day with clients actually have an application in relationships that make it really easy to have those conversations. But I think a lot of times in relationship, whether we're coaches or not, there can be this really pressure filled expectation that without these conversations, without this kind of process, things just happen. Like, we just know who we are, we just know what we stand for. We just know what the other's thinking. We just know what we're creating together versus intentionally discussing that and creating that. Right. It sort of feels like culturally that's something we always do.
Vimla | 34:06
Yes, very true. And maybe that's the culture shift that coaching confidential can bring about <laugh>.
Lisa | 34:14
So, Yeah.
Vimla | 34:16
Um, so Lisa, I also want to acknowledge what, how said about, um, how becoming a coach changed him. I think he pointed to becoming a more curious person and he used the words, he's being more curious and, uh, not doing more curious. That was, that was an amazing distinction, I thought.
Lisa | 34:43
Yeah. I almost felt like we could go into a rat hole in that, but what I love that he brought that made it really simple was he said, I'm bringing more wonder.
Vimla | 34:53
Yes.
Lisa | 34:54
And I feel like in our culture, we reward doing over being. And so we feel like maybe this space of wonder, this playing in this place of possibility, we don't often give that enough time. I'll speak for myself. I don't. Yes. And it really feels like it's such a place of possibility.
Vimla | 35:25
Yeah. Yes. It's interesting you say that because you know, I think as coaches we, we are trained in curiosity and um, I'll just speak for me. Um, I feel like it's so easy to bring curiosity and wonder to my clients, but bringing that same curiosity and wonder to myself is, um, is not always easy. Although like, which means like I have the skill, but I need to point it to me as well sometimes.
Lisa | 35:56
Yeah, I hear that. And this is one of the great, we talked about this in several episodes, right? The great gift of being a coach is that we are, we're always being invited to do our own work.
Vimla | 36:13
Yes. Yes. So very, very true. All right, so what's happening in the next episode?
Lisa | 36:23
So in our next episode, which is episode 16, we're gonna return to our original format where we actually have a real live unscripted coaching session and then a conversation about that session afterwards where we highlight the impact of this session for the client and where we highlight the skills that the coach used in that particular coaching conversation.
Vimla | 36:54
Exciting. I'm looking forward to going back.
Lisa | 36:58
Yes, me too. These conversations are so interesting and I'm actually curious how listeners experience them. And so as usual, we welcome comments and questions and how do they do that? FMA
Vimla | 37:16
<laugh>, they go to the show notes and there will be links to the website and uh, maybe there'll be an email Id they can write to us.
Lisa | 37:26
Yes. And just a reminder, you might be listening to this podcast on your podcast platform of choice. Maybe that's Spotify, maybe that's Apple podcast. Maybe that's Overcast. Doesn't matter. This particular podcast is available on all the platforms, and you can listen to it directly on our current website, which is dub dub dub your vital self.com/coaching confidential. Thanks so much for listening.
Vimla | 37:58
Yes, untill next time.